Siduction Forum
Siduction Forum => Installation - Support => Topic started by: este.el.paz on 2019/04/12, 19:59:20
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Folks:
New to Siduction and new to the forum, but not new to the linux world . . . I've tried to read through some of the manuals and forum topics to get a feel for how an installation might go with Siduction . . . generally my impulse is to "run the install" and then clean up any messes after the storm . . . . But, some of the threads relating to Nvidia graphics seemed to suggest trying to get the "latest build" via IRC . . . ?? I've tried a number of the live iso versions via USB stick, the MATE (seems like it's no longer supported?) . . . the Cinnamon (same as in mint it seems glitchy/crashy) . . . and ending with the Plasmoid 5 version, which would probably be the supported choice for a little more eye candy than XFCE or LXQT . . . .
But, with some what of a wild card that brings in some caution . . . i.e., I'm running a multi-boot situation in 3 HD/SSD with 4 flavors of OSX, and 4 flavors of linux . . . 2 ubuntu, one LTS and one "developmental" . . . and two OpenSUSE "rolling" editions, one Gecko and one Tumbleweed . . . . So, I'm not new to running installations and setting up GRUB . . . .
What is "new" is that in the past Debian seemed to be a little more "picky" about how it gets handled and didn't seem to be able to "play with others" . . . similarly to OSX that will wipe GRUB data with each update, Debian didn't sem to have the best sense of humor about itself and how it behaves with other kids . . . so I'm wondering whether there is a track record with Siduction in multi-boot systems that would suggest it be better left on the usb flash drive for optional runs, rather than trying to mix it in with the other players . . . ??
Or, no problem, Siduction plays well with others? I usually set up a "/" partition . . . and then add the "/home" into a shared partition . . . and swap gets shared by others. I have previously only had about 3 systems on a computer, this is the first one where I have multiple drives and more systems, which does seem to have caused a problem for the OpenSUSE systems to find the "UUID" for swap . . . but otherwise, I can boot the computer, GRUB loads and I select from the four linux options . . . .
The other question revolved around a "dibl" thread from the beginning of the year asking about "UEFI" installs . . . usually in the ubuntu installer there is a place to select "bootloader" partition, but it seemed like from his question that for Siduction the installer doesn't have that option to check/mark in the GUI installer?? Haven't had time to check that yet . . . but, just asking for the advice and counsel on whether it's better to first try the "2018-5-3" ??? iso for installation, and then run update/upgrade . . . and see how that works? Or, this computer now has Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 graphics, and that might cause a problem, as it seemed to for another poster here on the forum?? and so it's better to try to find my way to the IRC and try to get the latest spin edition . . . before trying an install???
I'm somewhat used to the issues that show up with "rolling" distros that I have . . . mostly keeping them "box stock" . . . they do require more "attention" than LTS . . . . Since I have so many choices if one of them has "issues" I can just reboot . . . but, I would be new to the world of Sid . . . and don't know whether Sid is more of a "delinquent" child, or just "precocious" ??? The live usb version I have tested boots up quickly and loads the GUI fast . . . don't know if that "bodes well" for the fresh install out of the old iso, or, get the freshest latest before I waste time?? Both of the OpenSUSE rolling iso's were also from last year, and after massive updates, all was well . . . and every week or so there are more massive updates . . . so far they haven't "broken themselves into pieces" . . . does Sid "break himself into many pieces, just because it can" ??? or, does it more or less keep itself and the computer running it . . . in good stead?? Would not want to break the machine just to have the quickness of mr Sid . . . .
Thanks for the bandwidth,
e.e.p.
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I am absolutely no friend of Dualboot or even Multiboot. I also don't know why you need so many native installations on one computer.
And then one /home for multiple Linux installations, i.e. its settings. You produce the problems for yourself.
I would install one native operating system. When I need more (to try out, for specific cases or for whatever reason), I install these operating systems in VMs.
Concerning siduction ask for a current image on IRC (agaida, devil, piper)!
Btw., the whole thing is too much and also repetitive text for a support question.
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@axt:
OK, thanks kindly for the reply . . . appreciate the insights . . . sorry if there were "too many words" . . . to, um, read. I was just trying to get a feel for the "community" of Siduction, based upon the headliner . . . "the community based OS" . . . ??
So, alrighty, I'll look into the IRC channel of #siduction ??? and try to get a newer spin to test drive . . . see how it flies before making the decision on it.
So far things seem to be "on par" to the past behaviors of the various debian forums, where folks seemed to primarily take umbrage with not only the question asked, but often the details of how it was asked, etc . . . generally the goal seemed to be to point out the general "error" of even asking it, and or the "sanity" of the person doing whatever it is that is being asked about . . . . This in spite of the fact that debian is a system designed to be messed with . . . my "mess" is that I like to cut up disks and run installs, and then be able to have "options" to boot into, rather than as with VM . . . open a "window" of a system, within another base system . . . . Sometimes it's a PITA to have to reboot to get to something other than "the system of choice" . . . but, that's the life of the multi-booteer . . . . : - )
I think I've been kicking around in linux for roughly 12 years, when I first used to post on the black bordered "debian user" forum for purists, then asking about how to get things running in PPC computers, the usual response from the help was, "why the h*ll are you doing that, you must be stupid??" . . . from the first few posters, then later on, one of the rare guys who was running linux on a PPC machine would post back with some real data . . . . These days it's the "multi-boot" sub-culture that I'm in . . . not many people are doing it . . . they don't know much about it . . . so, they think it's stupid . . . . But, it's what I'm doing with this computer . . . I even have room for yet another SSD . . . which I'll also need to cut up and install a bunch of systems and stuff on it . . . . Never enough systems or stuff to boot up into . . . .
best wishes,
e.e.p
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You need to use paragraphs !!
and then add the "/home" into a shared partition
Probably the worst thing you can do on a multiboot system is share the home (unless i misunderstood, it happens all the time)
Yes, I would go to irc and grab a fresh iso
Nvidia is really easy to install/remove
Unstable (sid) is called unstable, not because it's prone to crashes, but because of how often it changes
To make the best of sid, it is wise to full-upgrade every day, some people do it once or twice a week, after 2 weeks, you keep the pieces :P
The unstable (sid) repositories are updated every 6 hours. This happens in debian 4 times per day, each versus 05:00, 11:00, 17:00 and 23:00 and why full-upgrades are important on a daily basis.
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These days it's the "multi-boot" sub-culture that I'm in . . . not many people are doing it . . . they don't know much about it . . . so, they think it's stupid . . . . But, it's what I'm doing with this computer . . . I even have room for yet another SSD . . . which I'll also need to cut up and install a bunch of systems and stuff on it . . . . Never enough systems or stuff to boot up into . . . .
I would say *most people here have close to or more than 20 years of linux, I actually don't really know anyone personally who has never dual booted, it's old school, it's boring, it's a lot of work (unless you run stable versions and not rolling releases) I myself run 3 different versions of siduction.
Plasma, LXQT, and my private budgie-desktop build. I also have a debian sid version and a sidux install (from 2007). Sometimes I have a windows 7 going, sometimes I don't and thats the same with lfs (linux from scratch).
I no longer have solaris installled, no need/use for it anymore, I still dable with bsd, but major dual booting days are long gone, *most people know about it and have done it, just not thrilling anymore.
If your running that many *distro's use a 40_custom (grub) it's easier
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There is nothing wrong with multiboot - and it doesn not matter if it is UEFI or legacy. @Piper mentioned the 40_custom, i would tend to copy it to 09_mygrub or so. Reason: The entries in that file will be the first in the grub menu.
@Piper: I win, i have all siduction flavours, Arch, Debian stable, Debian testing, Debian Sid, Ubuntu and some test installations on my testing notebook :P
PS: In a sane setup just remove the os-prober, the only reason for the prober is to clutter and probably fuck off the boot configuration. And the prober is dead slow.
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Trying to share /home/user among multiple install OS's is a fools errand, because of the .configx files.
Use /mnt/DATA as the place to keep the data. Other partitions, other hdds -- whatever, mount it there. Then symlink /mnt/DATA/MUSIC and /mnt/DATA/DOCS into /home/user on every OS that you have.
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@piper, melmarker, dibl:
OK, thanks for the further replies . . . and the clarification on who "mr Sid" exactly is, i.e., the guy who changes clothes 4 times a day, Louie . . . each and every day . . . . It does sound like a lot of responsibility on the "care and feeding" front . . . as Piper mentions, having the multi-boot responsibilities is "boring" . . . very "old skool" . . . and, yes, a lot of work . . . sigh . . . . I'm falling behind on my OpenSUSE systems as we speak . . . the "rolling" thing is "relentless" . . . . : - ))
Anyway, on the "shared home folder" . . . no . . . I am "sharing" a large partition, within which I create a new /home folder for each distro . . . and, it's more like I have two /home folders on two HDs . . . I'm not using the same "profile" name for all of the installs . . . . But, anyway, thanks for the head's up on it . . . it does seem like there are some "old skool" "boring" dudes who are running multi-boot shows with Siduction, and or various other Sid, or non-Sid flavors . . . so that's good to know. I tend to run hot and cold on a particular flavor . . . a few months back I was looking for a Sid distro to help fill my time, nothing showed up in google searches at the time . . . I went with Lu 19.04 . . . which is "developmental/testing" . . . and so far I have to say it's "low maintenance" . . . seems like sometimes days, or longer, goes by with "nothing to do" showing up in the "apt upgrade" command . . . "nothing to do, here" it says . . . .
It would be a big jump up to the Sid level of performance . . . . : 0 Also thanks for the mention of the "40_custom" adjustment for GRUB . . . I don't know what that is, I'm mostly a GUI installer guy, using "custom" via GParted . . . and "bootloader" gets tagged for the EFI folder/directory . . . . Only times I've had to mess with GRUB was those numerous times when an OSX upgrade has destroyed the GRUB locations file . . . .
Anyway, when I get a moment I'll look into the IRC connection to check out a fresh iso spin . . . .
eep
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@melmarker
Shit, I forgot about os-prober, good point !
Depends on if I am building and installing stock or my personal builds, stock I have a script I run to remove all packages I don't use/need and os-prober is on that script, if my personal build, I don't build with os-prober :P
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If it sounds like a Hanisch it probably is a Hanisch!
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@tommy2 - no, please no insults - hanisch never used ellipses to separate text :)
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@melmarker
Shit, I forgot about os-prober, good point !
@et al: I'll try to look into removing os-prober
If it sounds like a Hanisch it probably is a Hanisch!
@tommy2 - no, please no insults - hanisch never used ellipses to separate text :)
@melmarker: Thanks for the support . . . ellipses are indeed my signature punctuation of choice . . . but this is one of those, "If a tree falls and nobody hears it . . ." or the "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life" . . . things . . . it's not a "Hanisch" . . . . Have not posted on this forum before this thread . . . been even many years since I posted on a Debian based forum thread . . . .
Since the thread is continuing to show sins of life, I'll continue to ask "ultimate questions" . . . the manual seems to be a tad "old" with it's references to "you must use 'apt-get'" in the TTY to do upgrades . . . but, it seems then like "apt" is being used, which when that command came into play, "dist-upgrade" went out the door . . . you could use it, but for the most part, just "upgrade" pulled in all the needed packages??? But, I saw references to using those "d-u" type terms in some threads . . . and "full-upgrade" . . . are either of those terms necessary to do the **regular** rolling upgrades, OR is the now current "apt upgrade" fine to use in your distro? There were a number of **Be warned, pilgrim** in red letters in the manual . . . figure better to ask up front than to ignore the advice offered . . . .
eep
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apt-vs-apt-get (https://itsfoss.com/apt-vs-apt-get-difference/)
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apt-vs-apt-get (https://itsfoss.com/apt-vs-apt-get-difference/)
@piper:
Thanks . . . I did find that exact page yesterday or so . . . which I did read then, but reading it again I saw the "apt full-upgrade" is the equivalent to the "apt-get dist-upgrade" command . . . so seemingly they are "inter-changeable" with the Sid based rolling distro . . . only caveat seems to be, not to run upgrades in "X"??? The rest of it would be more or less the same as any linux system???
eep
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@melmarker, good point my bag. :-[
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@melmarker, good point my bag. :-[
@tommy2:
"my bag"???? . . . (note the ellipsis) . . . here in the states we say, "my baD" . . . when we make an error . . . . "My bag" refers to something that we do . . . like "my bag is the over-use of ellipses . . . ." That kind of thing . . . . : - )))))
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When I make an error, I say shit or fuck, sometimes I might even curse.
not to run upgrades in "X"
No need for leaving "X" anymore
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not to run upgrades in "X"
No need for leaving "X" anymore
@piper:
#MeToo . . . I rarely say, "my bad" or "my bag" . . . I also curse openly . . . .
OK, thanks for that data about not needing to leave "X" . . . so it's more or less "normal" . . . which is good.
So, now the only "unknown" for me is the IRC channel connection . . . it's been years since I have used IRC. I looked around on the manual to try to find the "how to" . . . nothing seemed to be relevant. I **did** see the "IRC" launcher in the siduction live iso when I booted it up, but I don't know whether I can "burn" an iso from the usb flash drive I'm booted in . . . to another flash drive that I don't have at this point?? I don't know what is entailed in asking for the latest or newer spin of siduction . . . an iso file to to download, a link to a "wget"??
Haven't had time to reboot into the siduction drive I have now to check what shows up when using the Siduction IRC app, but I've been in Lu 19 and that has "Quassel IRC" app, which seems to be pre-set up to connect to the Lubuntu channel . . . I found the "irc.oftc.net" on port 6667 . . . but it's then asking for a password . . . which I don't know what that might be?? siducer??? siduction??? just plain "sid"?? "live"??
eep
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you are right, the manual is a bit outdated, but we are working on it
re: apt vs apt-get - in short: apt-get has a stable interface and should be used in scripts, apt has a nicer user interface and should not be used in scripts, beside of that the main and really important difference for sid users is
apt upgrade == apt-get upgrade --install-new-pkgs + some fancy styles in progress
not installing new packages within the upgrade process is a loaded gun pointing to one or both feets - and it will fire sooner or later (hmm - sooner, in moments when one absolutely not aware of and don't have time to react) Murphy's law in action. So in the worst case the bullets hit the head instead of both feets - because all is possible.
One can do several things with the iso: Burning it to a DVD or use dd to put it on a stick - it doesn't matter, it is a hybrid iso.
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apt upgrade == apt-get upgrade --install-new-pkgs + some fancy styles in progress
One can do several things with the iso: Burning it to a DVD or use dd to put it on a stick - it doesn't matter, it is a hybrid iso.
@et al:
As I posted in the #siduction, but didn't have time to wait for any replies to it . . . thanks to the fast response to my earlier request on the chat line for the latest spin . . . I did just "burn it to dvd" which is "easier" getting a bootable file for installation set up in OSX . . . ran the install, and all seemed to go well with it. Only "issues" to report on is a problem I reported a few years back in "ubuntu" flavors, possibly 14.04 . . . with a "non-response" to key stroke on "eject" key . . . to eject said dvd . . . seems to still be "around" . . . not a major complaint these days, since most players seem to be using usb stick as the install media . . . . And, along those same lines, mousing on the "eject" button next to "mounted external devices" . . . does "work" to eject the dvd/optical drive drawer, but it opens and closes within a second . . . I had to stand up, get next to the drive door . . . click the button . . . use all my spidey skills to grab the dvd as the drawer was . . . disappearing . . . . Cranky old guy doesn't appreciate having to do anything "fast" or requiring manual dexterity . . . . : - (((
But, thanks for the fast replies on the chat channel . . . OSX would not open the checksum & manifest files, but running the install without them . . . seemed to be clean . . . . On the chat yesterday I was now "sidereal1" . . . but via the Siduction IRC links it wasn't showing any other conversations that might have been going on . . . unlike the previous day, my "post" didn't elicit any reply . . . so I'm posting it here.
I'm now a "siducer" . . . we'll see if that is "semi-permanent" . . . or "flash in the linux pan"??? : - ))))
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a "non-response" to key stroke on "eject" key
I also have an Apple keyboard, the old white. Eternal times the eject key has worked with Ubuntu (Gnome 2) and Lubuntu (LXDE) ootb. With siduction (LXQt) it actually doesn't work, as I recently noticed. But doesn't bother me, it's certainly configurable (I use "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" - you could try with one of the Apple models, e.g. "Apple Aluminium (ANSI").
to eject the dvd/optical drive drawer, but it opens and closes within a second
That's right too. I know this behavior since Ubuntu ~Feisty, want to say since ~12 years (it was OK before that). It is necessary to hold the plate so as not to risk the destruction of the DVD (of course that's not good for the drive either). Fortunately, you hardly need CDs/DVDs anymore.
OSX would not open the checksum & manifest files
These are normal text files, pure ASCII. For sha256 checking you could execute in an OSX terminal:
shasum -a 256 <file>
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a "non-response" to key stroke on "eject" key
I also have an Apple keyboard, the old white. Eternal times the eject key has worked with Ubuntu (Gnome 2) and Lubuntu (LXDE) ootb. With siduction (LXQt) it actually doesn't work, as I recently noticed. But doesn't bother me, it's certainly configurable (I use "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" - you could try with one of the Apple models, e.g. "Apple Aluminium (ANSI").
OSX would not open the checksum & manifest files
These are normal text files, pure ASCII. For sha256 checking you could execute in an OSX terminal:
shasum -a 256 <file>
@axt:
Thanks for the thoughts on the "shared experience" . . . yes, this optical drive thing has gone back to an earlier day . . . I think ubuntu 12.04 was overall operationally pretty good, I was in PPC at that time . . . subsequent upgrades seemed to lose some functions . . . .
Thanks for the thoughts about adjusting the keyboard, I think I set it for "US Mac" . . . can't remember for sure, as I did an OpenSUSE Leap install after that, which went "sideways" . . . I don't think it had an option to pick "Mac" . . . but I think Siduction installer did . . . . It's not a big enough problem to spend time/thought on it . . . .
On the checksum, yep . . . I do know how to run it in the Terminal . . . I **might** have checked the "md5" number on that file . . . bit of a blur . . . I wanted to do the chat via a Lubuntu IRC chat app, but, it wasn't connecting to #siduction . . . I wanted the .iso to download into linux world, where I have "mkusb" app installed to "burn" a usb drive live dvd . . . but I found the link on the Siduction wiki when I was in OSX . . . and the Siducer guru team was there with just a "@" showing as my post . . . fast. And so it went on in OSX . . . . : - )