[EN] How important is x switch of during d-u?

[vilde]

Because of part of the discussion about systemd I would like to know how important it really is to have x completely switched of during a d-u as long as the d-u is not done from the x-session. If x is running and d-u is done under tty is that not ok? Or first log out then tty and d-u?

[DeepDayze]

it's safest to d-u in init 3 as updates to Xorg or core system components while X is running could conceivably cause problems

[piper]

Updating KDE while in KDE (or gnome, etc ..)  just doesn't make sense and is really asking for trouble as something can go wrong.

Stopping the service is a safe bet (recommended), however, it is your machine, and you'll have many that don't follow that path

[ralul]

as long as the d-u is not done from the x-session.

It doesn't matter what programs run.

Worst case scenario:
But if you would crash your whole system by running a graphical high load game using a proprietary graphics driver, this will kill your upgrade while "on the jump". Also this should be handled by Debians package system: Otherwise all of the upgrading systems caught in power outage would be lost.

@Piper: I am just compiling and installing Gentoo Kde from a Kde session this moment. And this lasts over two hours!

[ralul]

Since 2010 it is not needed, see
/usr/share/doc/dbus/changelog.Debian.gz

* debian/dbus.init
    - Simplify check in start_it_up() by using the existing status action.
    - Stop restarting dependent services. It was an ugly hack anyway and if
      people want to restart dbus, they need take care of that themselves.
      (Closes: #540693, #530395)
  * debian/dbus.postinst
    - Stop restarting dbus system bus on upgrades as it breaks too many
      applications and is not supported by upstream in a sensible way.
      Instead trigger a reboot-required message using update-notifier.
      (Closes: #530000, #573386)

 -- Michael Biebl <biebl>  Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:54:54 +0200

Before this the change of runlevel to init3 for DU was seriously recommended.

[piper]

@Piper: I am just compiling and installing Gentoo Kde from a Kde session this moment. And this lasts over two hours!

I don't miss those days and I don't miss gentoo

2 hours equals 30 installs of siduction on my main rig, 24 installs on my second & third rig

Well, like I said "many that don't follow that path"

I on the other hand, do it outside of x and will continue to do so



My testing in this and the use of aptitude (sid, not stable) has let me stay in this habit and has made me a lifer, not a fan at all of sudo, aptitude (sid, not stable) , and du in x

Choice is good, I just do it in a clean way outside the environment I am updating and I don't have problems beside my own stupidy which is a problem in itself.

[der_bud]

I think it is not that important to switch to init 3 as it was in former times, but it does not really hurt or cost time. It can hurt under certain circumstances if you stay in your X-session.

My personal path: while in KDE I sometimes do in a terminal window

Code: [Select]

apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -dwhich shows and loads the packages, but does not trigger D-U. As we are in sid, I carefully read the output, what will be removed, updated, added. If there are only few packages and obviously nothing to do with core components of X, DM, filesystem or else, I trigger D-U from that same terminalwindow. If I am unsure, I choose to be safe via init 3.

And while doing so, I repeat the mantra: "If you do not go to init 3, well tough for you, you have been warned - me dont blame siduction for breakage - me dont complain"

[eQuacky]

I had a some 3 years old sidux installation, switched to console and forgot executing init 3 and so had a still running kde in background.

After reboot it has gone forever.

Greetz

Thomas

[ralul]

I think it is not that important to switch to init 3 as it was in former times, but it does not really hurt

Your answer can restrain in this case, because the question of the original poster was inaccurately answered (and not that clearly expressed).

The use case was:
- If trying systemd and
- if systemd isn't properly configured:
- If it doesn't close X
- when doing systemd init3 (systemctl isolate multi-user.target)

Is it then possible to dist-upgrade by only doing the logout of X and login as root in a text console?

My answer:
Yes it is possible, there are no problems of the past (before 2010) anymore!

It can hurt under certain circumstances if you stay in your X-session.

The only circumstance is:
If you have a very crashy Debian system in the first place! If Kdm (or Gdm) is crashing spontanously without any intervention in a way the whole system segfaults.

[DeepDayze]

I fondly remember Damentz's funny t-shirt "I D-U in X" back in the old sidux days. Some people do live dangerously!

[ralul]

"I D-U in X"

Question was: D-U parallel to a sleeping X possible - not IN.

[dibl]

Just slightly OT:  If there are updated drivers or firmware bits for non-video system hardware items (audio, CPU microcode, ethernet, etc.) then these are going to need a reboot to be loaded, whether the d-u is in X or not in X, right?

[michaa7]

Not neccessarily. But for beginners (not you ;-) ) it's the easiest way. Instead of rebooting you could unload and reload the respective module or stop and restart the respective service like
/etc/init.d/alsa-utils  stop ; /... start
/etc/init.d/networking stop ; /... start

With CPU microcode, don't know, but *I* would reboot.

[ralul]

@dibl, nearly all of Linux you can stop-start-reload!
An upgraded Kde:
1. logout
2. login as root in a text console
3. systemctl restart kdm.service

[vilde]

The use case was:
- If trying systemd and
- if systemd isn't properly configured:
- If it doesn't close X
- when doing systemd init3 (systemctl isolate multi-user.target)

Is it then possible to dist-upgrade by only doing the logout of X and login as root in a text console?

My answer:
Yes it is possible, there are no problems of the past (before 2010) anymore!

This I will take as the answer I asked for, thanks ralul.

For us who has been here many years (I have been here since the kanotix time) it's well rooted in our brains that d-u shall be done in level 3 and nothing else so I understand some turbulence about this question.

About rebooting after d-u, because towo normally is doing frequent kernel updates the d-u for me often involves a new kernel so I always do a reboot after d-u, no big deal I think.