Siduction Forum

Siduction Forum => Free Speech / Freie Rede => Free Speech (EN) => Topic started by: ralul on 2012/06/09, 16:10:19

Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ralul on 2012/06/09, 16:10:19
From Debians Godfather Zacchiroli:
"The ongoing discussion to harmonize packaging of multimedia software between the official Debian archive and the unofficial archive (dmo) has progressed.  I've tried to help the two groups reaching an agreement on which packages belong where, so that both duplicate packaging efforts and user inconveniences are minimized. That seems not to have worked and dmo maintainers have simply announced that they will move away from the current domain name to a new one that does not include "debian" in its name."

related at the end of his message:
"on the multimedia front, I've also sought legal advice for the multimedia team, to better understand how to provide a decent multimedia experience for Debian users while respecting the draconian copyright system that exists almost world-wide. There seem to be some solutions in sight for the few missing packages (which I'm still discussing with the respective maintainers), but they'll hardly be ready for Wheezy"
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: holgerw on 2012/06/10, 07:58:47

it might has to do with my bad english, but I don't understand, if here is any progress for users.

We've a discussion about multimedia stuff between debian project and marrilat team, well this is nice and discussions are a conditio sine qua non in such a case. But it's not a sufficient one.

Kind regards,
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ralul on 2012/06/10, 09:05:13
Zacchiroli said his affort has failed, because the people dont want to make compromises. To make this even clearer they want to rename their project (abandon Debian in their name).
The "related" means the alternative will not be perfect.

For us Debian users this means (as ever):
Attention please: Beware of that site!

I could think of some missing things to be fetched as source from ubuntu or mint and then compiled new for Debian unstable at siduction. Do you miss something?

I thought this news was worth a notice, because every now and then you here of some of our users fetching from that site.
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: piper on 2012/06/10, 19:47:06
I have used the "site" exclusively for years with nothing breaking or not working as my whole house mythtv media center. I also keep the repo enabled with every dist-upgrade. I, so far to date, with years of using the repo and mythtv never had anything break or not work.
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ralul on 2012/06/10, 20:03:54
@piper thank you for this feedback. You could talk back once more about it, when the name change happens and if they change their policies fundamentaly (perhaps).
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: Lanzi on 2012/06/10, 21:36:21
I used it with aptosid and siduction exactly like piper did. When installing siduction I had a lot of breaking dependencies...
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: cid-baba on 2012/06/10, 22:04:18
I use it the same way piper is using it... only for mythtv, but enabled with normal prioritys for every DU - not a single problem for years now!
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: DeepDayze on 2012/06/11, 01:14:42
Quote from: "cid-baba"
I use it the same way piper is using it... only for mythtv, but enabled with normal prioritys for every DU - not a single problem for years now!

Ditto, same here
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ReinerS on 2012/06/11, 10:22:34
I too use this repo for years now and can't remember of any problems caused by this site and I guess this will propbably not change in the near or longer future 8)

But during reading over, I think problems arise out of the fact that some debian developers now introduce "restricted" "multimedia"-packages wich they didnot even wanted to touch before in the past.
I remember one set of libraries (libwxgtk) where the debian-maintainer/developer just left parts out because "nobody in debian uses that". Well this broke just such an outside multimedia package, but it seems noone at debian really cares for that. I expect similar problems coming up on other packages when they do now such "multimedia-stuff".S:!:

Those//some of them had been available more or less exclusively from Now there are coming up such multimedia-packages from different sources with the same naming but maybe some different content which might cause/has caused problems. :P

I myself donot blame debian-multimedia for that as they were the only ones active in that "multimedia-area for years. The debian-developers/maintainers didn't want to work on that or seeped it over.
Frankly spoken when I look through the conversation on this I had a little bit the impression on the side of some developer of: "We are debian/borg resistance is . . ."

Anyway this problem won't go away at all just with the renaming of the site at all. The problem of duplicate naming and different files will stay. I wished the debian developers had been shown more flexibility/common sense on that issue so it could have been solved :evil:

The onlything that will get solved on that are some kinky "license" and "intellectual property" issues which were raised on that discussion. Is debian now associated with the content-industry and takes over their methods  :roll:

I think they sleeped it over for years first and run into problems with their new packages and turned to the dpl "Daddy, daddy debian-multimedia is evil, they treat us badly . . .":P  :evil:
My 2 - 5  cents on that.


Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ralul on 2012/06/11, 13:44:03
sounds like a "more into it" description of the issue and its history. If that is the case (Debian not having complete packages) then such a /etc/apt/preferences.d/mmedia
Code: [Select]
Package: *
Pin: origin
Pin-Priority: 999
could help you to dismangle:
origin - not release - preference
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ReinerS on 2012/06/11, 14:01:49
@ralul: well I had some strange experience/answers with that "dvdstyler" package that Christian Marilat couldnot build any more and wasn't included in his repo since.
I myself have not found a way to get it compiled myself (it seems to require a lot of source-code/libs from their original developer and not the ones from debian), but still working on that.

Thes statements that I have seen/interpreted from some developers (not the dpl) in this e-mail list therefore sound familiar to me and lead to my conlusions on that. :?

Like often I really would like to be wrong on that  :P


Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: michaa7 on 2012/06/11, 14:08:20
But there had been breakage with this mm-repo in the past. IIRC it was related to ffmpeg and the x264 codec, which seems to have copyright issues.
Nontheless I have enabled this repo, but with low priority. I would advise evereyone to be carefull with this repo enabled and keep a close eye on what's happening during d-u.
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: ralul on 2012/06/11, 14:29:08
@michaa7, your way would have been possible, if Zacchiroli had succeeded with compromises ...

My advice:
- do not use MM at all (what I am doing as a pure media consumer)
- or use it with highest preferences
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: frogbert on 2012/06/20, 19:45:09
Following the archived bits of discussion there:

I got the following impressions:

-one didn't care 'bout multimedia for years and was actually plaesed with the situation of delivering crippled packages (the users which did want to do serious work with the programs as intended by their respective developers, could go elsewhere: to debian-multimedia)
-a revision of these decisions brought as result half crippled packages (at least in testing/sid) and annoyance about a 'Donate' button
-because it was feared (by some Debian-nut) users incapable of reading could be tricked/fooled into thinking, that a donation they made would go directly to Debian and not to Marillats bank account (as stated at the website) instead to help to maintain his servers
-Marillat depicted as the Gottseibeiuns did of course denied to fork over his keys to the soon-to-be abonded domain (debian-multimedia) after all...

Ungrateful bunch of freaks!

(Solution for Siduction could be some kind of script (didn't Kano did this with mplayer for his Kanotix?) to get a port-like (Mac-OSX, *-BSDs) experience perhaps. But this could become a very tedious task for the processor and annoying for clean dist-upgrades, because of the potential frictions between the different versions...
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: devil on 2012/06/20, 20:45:15
yeah, not gonna happen.

Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: holgerw on 2012/06/21, 06:24:11

I've a suggestion for Christian Marillat to avoid every trouble with debian project in the future:

Get familiar with rpm and ask Packman people to support that team.

I'm sure, this new job would be a more grateful one.

In the past I've used mm-repo, now I do not, but have a few manually downloaded packages in use, appart from that I think a lot of users have this repo active.

Okay, every third party stuff can be dangerous for a proper debian installation but the sid factor also can be dangerous and it seems that a lot of sid users are able to handle booth, the sid factor and Marillat's repo.

German spoken: Da wird auch hei├čer gekocht als gegessen :-)

Kind regards,
Title: renamed for not fitting
Post by: jaegermeister on 2012/06/23, 14:16:27
Too bad seeing people struggling over nonsense and not joining forces against the real evil...