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Siduction Forum => Siduction News => Siduction News (EN) => Topic started by: musca on 2014/10/12, 22:15:22

Title: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: musca on 2014/10/12, 22:15:22

Welcome Cinnamon as a new member in the siduction family!

Please try it and state your opinion here. Ideas are welcome!

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: ayla on 2014/10/12, 23:38:11
As a staunch KDE-user I really like it, nice face, nice handling; it may be worth to think of a change.

The only deficit for me compared to KDE I could find when playing about an hour or so is that I cant use different background  images on my two monitors, but thats a really minor one.

To the live image is to say: No german keyboard layout although I choosed F2 -> german at the bootscreen, not on console, not on iceweasel.
Haven't installed yet, but will give it a try tomorrow.

Thanks for your effort offering this to the siduction users.

greets ayla
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: musca on 2014/10/13, 00:39:59
Collection of suggestions for missing applications

We want GTK Apps, ofcourse! But we are free to decide and enjoy having choice!

Category Included Application  Suggestion / To Do 
Wordprocessor Abiword Libreoffice / LO was too fat for a Dev-Release
Spreadsheet Gnumeric  ?
Documentviewer Evince    ?
Browser Iceweasel  i.e. Debians Firefox-clone
Browser-Plugins Flash not preinstalled HTML5 ftw!
Mail Icedove  the Thunderbird-clone in Debian
Audioplayer Rythmbox audacious
Videoplayer Totem  gnome-mplayer + gecko
IRC-Client Hexchat ?
Editor Medit, Gvim juffed, geany, gedit, leafpad, ... / remove gvim!
Terminal Gnome-Terminal  ?
Dropdown-Terminal Guake    removed / had to disable "use system fixed width font"
File-Manager Nemo, File-Roller  ?  /  more plugins?
         
Soundmixer  veromix -gtk-tray-app for pulseaudio   
Messenger --    ?   /   Icedove does support some messenger protocols
Screenshot siduction-paste -s kazam, shutter, gnome-screenshot, scrot 


 (to be continued, this is work in progress)
 
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: piper on 2014/10/13, 02:05:01
You already know that I like it ;)
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: GoinEasy9 on 2014/10/13, 03:20:48
I hope you folks will post some screenshots.  I haven't seen cinnamon since leigh was working on the Fedora version back when Fedora 16 was around.  While I'm really comfortable with KDE, one never knows what will happen when Frameworks 5 is released.  It would be nice to have a backup plan, just in case there's a repeat of KDE 4.0.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: bluelupo on 2014/10/13, 09:08:07
Hi GoingEasy9,
KDE with the Framework 5 is certainly a highlight, I'm looking forward already.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: der_bud on 2014/10/13, 13:06:19
GoinEasy9, the bigger version of the screenshot which devil used in the Releasnote/News (http://news.siduction.org/2014/10/release-notes-for-sidcution-cinnamon-dev-release/) is here:
 https://mediacru.sh/0SzGhyvDU6Wt.png, one of mine http://paste.siduction.org/20141013110224.png

Ayla, the F2 thing is here too and is already in work, Bug #1716 (http://bugs.siduction.org/issues/1716).
-
Edit: while posting have seen that Ayla already contributed to #1716.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: GoinEasy9 on 2014/10/13, 19:42:49
Thanks for the responses, and the links to the screenshots.  I missed the one devil posted earlier.

As far as Frameworks 5, I'm excited for it also.  I'm just hoping it's fully functional when it's dropped into sid.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: JohnML on 2014/10/13, 20:32:25
some remarks to cinnamon:


i just installed to HD:


The sizes of the partitions shown in the installer are wrong? Second window at the bottom of the installer.


Only ntfs partitions are mountable in the left paine of nemo(?)


Other linuxes on my Hds (ext4) are missing.


Lightdm doesn't remember last logged in user and session ( -> cinnamon )


funny:
The file fstab wants to be opened by a huge picture of vim -logo [ vim: my personal horror-editor :-)) ]


... i'm really interested in cinnamon, so thanks for your work!

Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: melmarker on 2014/10/13, 21:20:12
Lightdm doesn't remember last logged in user and session ( -> cinnamon )
  -- right, thats true and the normal behaviour in all siduction flavours
Other linuxes on my Hds (ext4) are missing.
  -- really?
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: devil on 2014/10/14, 00:07:12
Other linuxes on my Hds (ext4) are missing.
Quote
Try to run os-prober, that should fix it.


greetz
devil
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: michaa7 on 2014/10/14, 00:55:28
Lightdm doesn't remember last logged in user and session ( -> cinnamon )
  -- right, thats true and the normal behaviour in all siduction flavours
...

This annoyance at each login is the reason why I always install kdm over lightdm.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: melmarker on 2014/10/14, 02:16:57
ok - standard security is annoying - no need to argue, thats a fact.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: ayla on 2014/10/14, 12:10:38
Quote
the Firefox-clone in Debian (and no flash, by design!)

what does this mean?

Tried to apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree but can't get it to work :(

works, but had to logout and in again?
greets
ayla
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: JohnML on 2014/10/14, 12:26:35
Other linuxes on my Hds (ext4) are missing.
Quote
Try to run os-prober, that should fix it.


greetz
devil

.. tried with os-prober, fstab looks ok now  but all the linux partitions are mounted at /disks
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: musca on 2014/10/14, 12:27:02
Hello ayla,

sorry, it only means that proprietary software is not preinstalled. I will clearify that.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: musca on 2014/10/14, 12:52:37
Hello JohnML,

Removable media (usb or optical) appear in nemo and on the desktop.
but my windows and linux partitions from the internal disk do not.

And yes, the /disks directory is weird and was introduced by upstream.
I will talk to the debian cinnamon team about it.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: ayla on 2014/10/14, 13:12:08
Removable media (usb or optical) appear in nemo and on the desktop.
but my windows and linux partitions from the internal disk do not.

And yes, the /disks directory is weird and was introduced by upstream.
I will talk to the debian cinnamon team about it.
What I really miss in comparishion with dolphin is the posibility to mount the internal disks from a user nemo by simply getting requestet for the root password. I have to start nemo from a root terminal to mount them which means every file I copy from another disk is owned by root and I have to change permissions manually. Of course, this is more secure, but not very user friendly. I know, i could mount them in fstab insteed, but I avoid this because of systemd's behaviour when an uuid changed -which happens from time to time when I'm  playing around...


Edit:
Thats strange; I made another install on a USB-disk, dist-upgraded and now I have the internal disks in my sideboard as user and can mount them per requestet root password... But starting nemo from console as root -no disks??
Argghh... think I've played to much today,will look at it again an other day.

greets
ayla
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: musca on 2014/10/15, 17:18:36
Hello ayla,

the weird /disks directory was inherited from latest fll changes. Now by default all internal partitions have entries in the fstab, we will have to discuss this behaviour.

After i commented out in /etc/fstab anything that does not belong to the cinnamon install (ofcourse keep / , /home and /boot), after next reboot nemo shows the expected behaviour: Now nemo presents partitions and asks for root-pw.

In my personal opinion the default should stay away from other data and not mount additional partitions.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: JohnML on 2014/10/15, 18:21:56

After i commented out in /etc/fstab anything that does not belong to the cinnamon install (ofcourse keep / , /home and /boot), after next reboot nemo shows the expected behaviour: Now nemo presents partitions and asks for root-pw.

greetings
musca


... except ntfs partitions that stay in /disks/disk?part?

That's really strange!
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: UP2L8 on 2014/10/20, 03:48:02
While I'm really comfortable with KDE, one never knows what will happen when Frameworks 5 is released.  It would be nice to have a backup plan, just in case there's a repeat of KDE 4.0.
Based on an early review in the Oct 2014 issue of Linux Voice (http://www.linuxvoice.com), I don't think you have to worry about KDE 5.

GoinEasy9, the bigger version of the screenshot which devil used in the Releasnote/News (http://news.siduction.org/2014/10/release-notes-for-sidcution-cinnamon-dev-release/) is here:
 https://mediacru.sh/0SzGhyvDU6Wt.png, one of mine http://paste.siduction.org/20141013110224.png
Nice screenshots; thank you for sharing.

ok - standard security is annoying - no need to argue, thats a fact.
+1
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: michaa7 on 2014/10/22, 18:08:11
...
ok - standard security is annoying - no need to argue, thats a fact.
+1

I won't argue here whether or not this might be a security issue, but everyone who feels it is simply should disable this:
Quote
KDE Control Center -> System Administration -> Login Manager -> Convenience -> Preselect User -> 'none'
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: vilde on 2014/10/22, 23:24:30
I did a installation that I later converted xfce desktop (http://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=5073.msg41794#msg41794) , there was two things I thought was wrong. The time was not right set, I did set the time zone in the installer but the orage clock in the panel was wrong, also the xfce panel clock was wrong, I had to run dpkg-reconfigure tzdata  ones to make that right.

The other issue is already mentioned before, right clicking to a textfile  will bring up a full screen window to chose if you want to open with medit or vim.
Title: Removed libglib2.0* and its dependencies.
Post by: musca on 2014/11/03, 22:54:21
Hello,

caused by a mistyped packagename (libglib2.0 instead libglib2.0-0) we have found some unneeded and possibly even unwanted packages in the cinnamon dev-release. You can clean up with this command which removes 19 packages:
Code: [Select]
apt-get purge libglib2.0-0-dbg libglib2.0-0-refdbg libglib2.0-cil libglib2.0-cil-dev libglib2.0-dev libglib2.0-doc libglib2.0-tests mono-4.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime mono-runtime-common mono-runtime-sgen libmono-corlib4.0-cil libmono-corlib4.5-cil libmono-security4.0-cil libmono-system-configuration4.0-cil libmono-system-security4.0-cil libmono-system-xml4.0-cil libmono-system4.0-cil
thanks towo` for this rather weird finding.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: mdavies5 on 2014/11/30, 02:49:03
I am a long time user of Cinnamon with Mint LMDE and now trying it with Siduction. There are 2 annoying differences which I have found.
1. I have correctly set my region and date formats in the system and in Nemo preferences(yyyy-mm-dd etc). Nemo works fine but if I want to open a file from any app menu (EG medit/file/open) the dates are either shown as a time for todays files or as a Day for earlier files (EG Wednesday).
2. I have created bookmarks in Nemo which appear in the sidebar. If I try to open a file as above the bookmarks do not appear. You must re-add them in the "Open" dialog.
Incidentally, I'm not crazy about mounted disks being added to the "disks" directory. Windows users may appreciate it but I prefer the Linux traditional method of using /mnt or /media and treating them as a file not as a disk.
Cheers
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: musca on 2014/11/30, 17:20:59
Hello mdavies5,
thanks for your detailed feedback. I can confirm all of your three issues. 

1. Nemo is a GTK 3.0 application while  medit is a GTK 2.0 application and uses gtk2 open dialog. Obviously gtk2 has different defaults. Having two dateformats for recent and older files is a feature (e.g. the "ls" command has this feature, too). I don't know yet how to configure the gtk2 default.

2. Same for the bookmarks. It seems there is no synchronization of the bookmarks between gtk3 and gtk2. I have no solution to this.

3. Full ACK, I don't like having those mountpoints in the "/disks" directory. This is not a dedicated cinnamon feature but a heritage from fullstory, the framework that we use to create our livemedia. The fll-live-scripts create theese directories in live mode and the installer adds them to your /etc/fstab at installation time. Please feel free to edit your fstab to get rid of this feature. I think the team will need to discuss this to find a better solution.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: melmarker on 2014/11/30, 17:54:43
This is a long standing bug/feature in siduction: http://bugs.siduction.org/issues/1081

Unfortunally it isn't so easy to solve, follow the princple of least surprise: Some people love it, some people hate it, but it is around since sidux days, so we should find a sensible approach. This approach will be a checkbox in the installer to take over the generated fstab entries or drop them.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: dibl on 2014/11/30, 20:12:21
I just installed siduction-cinnamon on a VM.  My only comment at this time is that the installer would not recognize a single 8GB hdd, filesystem ext4, as an available partition.  It was necessary to make a small swap space at the end of it, so it had a sda1 and sda2 partition, and then the installer was happy to recognize sda1 as an available partition.  This may or not happen on a real hard drive (I wouldn't install a real system with no swap, anyway).  Just FYI.  I will play with the cinnamon desktop system another day.
Title: Re: Discuss the siduction-cinnamon dev-release
Post by: dibl on 2014/11/30, 22:30:55
Here is the 14.1 cinnamon VM on my siduction desktop box.

(http://postimg.org/image/7redya8gr) (http://postimg.org/image/7redya8gr)