Siduction Forum

Siduction Forum => Upgrade Warnings => Topic started by: df8oe on 2019/02/10, 18:58:46

Title: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/10, 18:58:46
I am feeling like a Windows user.... I started upgrade and without any warning my 390xx driver was removed because "my graphics card is no longer supported". Fast manual reinstalling will revert this - but this is a no-go for a free system... And my decision to leave nvidia forever is manifested...
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/10, 19:17:40
You could have at least told us what video card you have
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: towo on 2019/02/10, 19:21:09
Apt allways print packages to remove!
Apt never warn about anything!

o your post is like bad propaganda.
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/10, 19:26:11
Another side note

Should always use (for people that are click "y" happy)


Code: [Select]
apt update; apt full-upgrade -dy
That way you can see what apt wants to do, then YOU can decide what You want apt to do
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/10, 19:41:17
It is like "stealth"  ;) .


Upgrade of package  "nvidia-legacy-check" asks you if you want to activate new driver (which does not support my quadro4000). So I answered with "no" - but inspite of this complete nvidia 396xx drivers are installed...


Only way to get rid of this was to purge "nvidia-legacy-check" and reinstall "nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver"...


Of course this is not problem of Siduction - it is problem of non-free nvidia drivers. My warning is that simple answering "no" does NOT prevent from installing complete incompatible 396xx stuff...


EDIT:
This happens at "apt upgrade" - NO DU!
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/10, 20:45:25
As said on the nvidia site (https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142)

Quote
The Linux 390.* legacy driver series is the last to support GF1xx ("Fermi") GPUs.  Support for new Linux kernels and X servers, as well as fixes for critical bugs, will be included in 390.* legacy releases through the end of 2022.

Debian still, as far as I know supports

Quadro 4000 [GF100GL], Quadro 4000M [GF104GLM]

nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver (https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver)


What is a Legacy GPU? (https://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_32667.html)





Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/11, 08:29:00
Hi Piper,


yes - so it is. What have made me crazy is that I made
- apt update
- apt upgrade
... when process reaches "nvidia-legacy-check" I was told that recent driver does not support my graphics-card (dialog style) and I have two possibilities: 1) activate recent driver anyway or 2) do not activate. So I selected of course "no" and thought that's it - but I was wrong. At reboot I was dropped to terminal login and investigated that many parts of the legacy-driver now have version 396xx instead of 390xx and so I do no longer have X. But at the list apt showed me before I confirmed there was only "nvidia-legacy-check" to upgrade - no other nvidia package! It seems so that "nvidia-legacy-check" has done the decision for me. First I reinstalled 390xx driver but at next apt upgrade it was gone again same way. I must purge "nvidia-legacy-check" first, then reinstall 390xx driver and now u and d-u runs smoothly. I do not have any other machine with exactly this configuration so I cannot test if it is reproduceable.
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/11, 13:42:56
Quote
- apt update
- apt upgrade

This should never be done in debian sid !

This is probably why you had problems to begin with
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/11, 14:05:52
Please help me. I am walking since 4 years through this path:


first apt update
then apt upgrade
then apt full-upgrade


...and NEVER ran into problems. Additionally I cannot understand why this should happen.


First is fetching new packages list
second is "without removing / installing new" packages
third is with both


???
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/11, 14:41:35
Code: [Select]
apt update; apt full-upgrade
Is all you need

I never understand why people insist on using "apt upgrade" in a sid environment ???
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/11, 18:13:41
The reason is that when something is uncomfortable (e.g. at a qt transition) many hundreds of packages can already be upgraded and a few persists which cannot be upgraded yet. You can see if something is continuously broken without gathering tons of packages and get every day more. apt upgrade solves most.


What is the reason that I can run into trouble if I first upgrade the packages which do not remove or add new packages?
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/11, 18:34:44
There is already a discussion on this, please search the forums
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/12, 07:44:33
I have done so and found some posts where people tell one should never ever use "upgrade" - but without explanation why simple "upgrade" should harm anything. In one post is mentioned "...as it is in the docs..." but without link and hint which docs.


Hmm.


I have worked using two steps since the beginning of my "Siduction-days" and never ran into probelms because of this. Many times my system was nearer at a complete upgraded system as if I would have use "dist-upgrade" because hundreds of packages were already installed and worked flawlessly.


The reason of my post was a package from nvidia which replaced partially 390xx drivers without possibility to stop that - you have to purge the package first so that old drivers leave untouched.


Nevertheless this is definitely my last nvidia card and I will share my experiences about "software planned obsolescence" with others... The ressources of our planet do not allow to set a driver-based end to thousands (may be millions) of graphic cards which run perfectly for their users. It is the decision of the users - not of the manufacturer. And giving software-support for these cards cannot be a question of costs. I think it is more a question "how to sell new cards".


EDIT:
I have searched the web and found in the official debian WIKI https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable:


##################################

Bearing this in mind, apt-get dist-upgrade to keep your system fully up-to-date, but if the proposed changes do look unreasonable, some of the simpler things that could help are:


##################################


 ::) ...
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: tommy2 on 2019/02/12, 11:17:40
df8oe, I try to follow the advise from those that make Siduction such a good distribution and use the full-upgrade. That is until I get in a situation where a lot of programs are to be removed, that's when I use upgrade. My reasons are two fold as I have found that especially when a new kernel is to be install I can do that and also reduce the total number of packages to be upgraded at the same time. To date that is the only time I use plain upgrade and have either had good luck that everything worked and in my case still works. I don't think you need to do both stages every time you update your system and like Piper stated it is not a good idea with sid. That said do what you think works best for your situation, but remember the moderators here do their best to keep all of us up and running with minimal side effects.  ;)
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: dibl on 2019/02/12, 11:39:32
@df8oe, the problem is, "upgrade" does not know about new packages that have been introduced into sid by the development team. It only knows about the packages you already have.

So if you only use "upgrade", your version of Debian gradually drifts away from the full sid OS.  And, if the new packages are important to the function of the OS, your version will eventually fail to operate.
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: tommy2 on 2019/02/12, 13:04:10
Thanks dibl, once again let the facts speak for themselves in that I should keep my advise for my own use.  :-[
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: melmarker on 2019/02/12, 13:20:18
Again the advise:

use apt instead of apt-get

Reason:

apt upgrade == apt-get upgrade --install-new-pkgs

This will avoid the drift @dibl mentioned.
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: piper on 2019/02/12, 13:29:25
Your problem with nvidia drivers and I quote

Quote
The reason of my post was a package from nvidia which replaced partially 390xx drivers without possibility to stop that

This is due to the fact you used apt upgrade

Let this be a lesson to you


If you want to carry on with the way you are using apt, at least do

Code: [Select]
apt update; apt upgrade -s
and you have to compare that with

Code: [Select]
apt update; apt full-upgrade -s
or

Code: [Select]
apt upgrade --install-new-pkgs -smelmarker beat me on this one

Humans are sometimes illogical

Live long and prosper
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: df8oe on 2019/02/13, 17:39:38
I was using apt (not apt-get) and so new packages would have been installed. The only difference to full-upgrade is that no packages are removed.


I am slightly confused. The drift dibl has mentioned cannot be the reason because new packages are accepted. I haven't made a snapshot before I ran into trouble but I am nearly sure it was a dependency of my installed packages... Otherwise there would have been more such issue reports!
Title: Re: warning! today upgrade will remove without asking your nvidia 390xx driver!!
Post by: David on 2019/02/18, 17:52:18
I was using apt (not apt-get) and so new packages would have been installed. The only difference to full-upgrade is that no packages are removed.


I am slightly confused. The drift dibl has mentioned cannot be the reason because new packages are accepted. I haven't made a snapshot before I ran into trouble but I am nearly sure it was a dependency of my installed packages... Otherwise there would have been more such issue reports!


apt still tells you what packages are being removed, though.


I'm not sure where you can check it without actually performing an apt full-upgrade, but there is occasionally a series of warnings included with apt full-upgrades.






If I were to make a single recommendation to you, though, it would be to buy another hard drive that's the exact same size as your current one and back up your system onto it before apt upgrades. Trust me, it'll take a load off your chest.