[EN] fonts and xorg.iso

[michaa7]

I d/l the 64 bit xorg.iso . cat it on an USB-stick, booting, boots quick and looks clean.

Except, I have glasses, 1.5 diopters, which isn't much. I really have difficulties to read. I have a headache after 5 minutes trying to fokus the letters.

I know how to set the fonts in fluxbox (it is a PINA), but I am barely able to read what's on the screen. And when I'm done configuring fluxbox I have to spent time for finding out how to configure konsole fonts for makeing midnight-commander and VTs comfortable to read, too.

Are you (I assume, it's you, melmaker, who did the good job of making xorg.iso possible, so you won't mind taking the critics, too.) really comfy with these font settings? Or can you agree it would please the users to have a better adapted basic font configuration.

After all we both know, the higher the resolution, the smaller the fonts (with default font size). So, for the next xorg.iso release, please add a reasonble font config.

And if you or someone else could give me a hint (better: let it be clear instructions!) how to adapt konsole fonts I'd appreciate it very much.


BTW:

I booted from one usb-stick and tried to install to an other usb-stick (first, because I don't want to loos my new font settings, second, because I want to update this installation prior to use it for an installation on a new computer). This action failed, because the installer was unable to format due something missing. The installer tried to format /dev, not /dev/sdc which I selected in the appropriate dialogue. Maybe having two usb sticks availble confuses the installer?

[melmarker]

michaa7: you may be surprised - but you are right. The fontsettings are fucking ugly and xterm and all other programs are nearly impossible to use long term. But that was not the point of xorg. The point of xorg was to provide a very raw live iso with a DM and a very basic windowmanager without any additional configurations - i think we reached this goal.

Joke aside - we used to use fluxbox because it was only one single package, so the iso was and is a great start to setup other window managers and other desktop environments, so any configuration we don't touch we must not remove. Btw. we talked about xorg today, convbsd want to improve it. I suggest the renaming from xorg to fluxbox in the case that fluxbox is configurated as a window manager thats there to stay.

So - if you have any suggestions or improvements for xorg (fluxbox) please talk to convbsd.

[convbsd]

Hello,

Xorg initial purpose was to be a siduction iso with a minimalistic DE only for testing different DE's.
To test new De's Xorg iso should be installed and over xorg install to add DE pkglist.
It includes sidu-installer cli-iinstaller and all related packages.
Haven't thinked that someone will try to use it as it is.
Indeed default debian theme is ugly and fonts are not ok.
If you have used fluxbox let's talk and try to fix things.

Thank you

[michaa7]

michaa7: you may be surprised - but you are right.

Not at all. If I am surprised, then about the fact you admit the really too restricted usability of something *you* had put efforts into. (see your next lines)

The fontsettings are fucking ugly and xterm and all other programs are nearly impossible to use long term. But that was not the point of xorg. The point of xorg was to provide a very raw live iso with a DM and a very basic windowmanager without any additional configurations - i think we reached this goal.

I refrain from commenting this 'cause it's too sad. But, to make it short:

- I wouldn't vote for renaming it.
- I like the xorg.iso concept, I do not understand at all the reasons (above) to *not* make it really a usefull siduction flavor.
- If my fluxbox settings are of any value to impove usability, I am happy to share them, but I doubt I'm of much help beyond that.  convbsd?

And again: How do I configure konsole fonts? I found this xfontsel which I have no clue if or how it does something usefull.

[michaa7]

...
Haven't thinked that someone will try to use it as it is.

Although I am reading here every day I missed the xorg.iso release at that time ;-) . I found it only when it was mentioned recently while arguing about fonts , I cannot believe this.

Indeed default debian theme is ugly

My first proposal is: Please, don't let us talk about artwork. In short: too much hassle for too less gain. Talking about taste is ok, but frankly, I don't care (not even with siduction, although all the way down from sidux to siduction, there was good or not so good artwork. I don't care).

So please let's fokus on the fonts, and if it afterwards has to be hoked up, we or somebody else may add a hint how to change the BG.

... and fonts are not ok.

Only to be clear as one can be: They are a POS.

If you have used fluxbox let's talk and try to fix things.

I am using fluxbox since I deserted KDE (when KDE 3.5 moved to 4, if I recall correctly). According to the ~.fluxbox files this happend around April 2009.

I like to keep it simple, I may show you some screen shots, and post my settings (I'll place it on a server and send you a link, not today, tough.
I may explain what I did and why (I am sure I have forgotten the most, so my explainations mostly will be: I don't remember (specially when it comes to how to set a non scalabel BG ;-) ))

In the mean time: How may I increase the konsole fonts? Please somebody?

[unklarer]

Fluxbox verwende ich nicht unter siduction. Sollte ich vielleicht auch mal machen...

Um die Schriftgröße zu ändern habe ich hier zwei (sofern vorhanden):
1.  /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc

Code: [Select]

..
exec /usr/bin/X11/X -dpi 120 -nolisten tcpoder höheren Wert eintragen

2. ~/.gtkrc-2.0  oder 3.0

Code: [Select]

...
gtk-font-name="Sans 10"
...oder höheren Wert.

Inwie das Systemweit wirkt, mußt Du ausprobieren.  Habe ich auch mal nur abgeschrieben.


translate:
Fluxbox I do not use under siduction. Maybe I should also make time ...

To change the font size I have two (if any):
or higher value

or higher value.

Inwie the system-wide effect, you must try. I have also depreciated only once.

[michaa7]

...

Um die Schriftgröße zu ändern habe ich hier zwei (sofern vorhanden):
1.  /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc

Code: [Select]

..
exec /usr/bin/X11/X -dpi 120 -nolisten tcpoder höheren Wert eintragen

translate:
Fluxbox I do not use under siduction. Maybe I should also make time ...

To change the font size ...:
or higher value

or higher value.

My /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc

!/bin/sh

exec /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp "$@"

anyone knows to which value this variable "$@" is expanded.

[dibl]

@michaa7, have you tried

Code: [Select]

dpkg-reconfigure console-setup

The choices on font size depend on your graphics hardware, but here I can make quite a reasonable adjustment.

[convbsd]

Hi michaa7

In fluxbox it's used xterm.
If you want to change font size take a look to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xterm.
Tough I don't know how to make permanent chosen size for font.
Another interesting link should be https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/X_resources#Getting_started.
If you can share settings it will be great.

Using last link I have added a xresource file under /etc/X11/Xresources.
File is named x11-xterm and it's contents is at http://paste.siduction.org/20141007202443 .
Using it fonts  should be ok.
You may change font size in x11-xterm file but I think that size 12 is enough.

Thank you

[michaa7]

First I must admit, that I didn't make it clear what I meant by "konsole fonts". I mean the fonts in the real terminal (ttys). Here on my WS (32bit) I have big fonts through the whole boot process. And the size is ok.
On my laptop (64 bit), which I use for trying the xorg.iso, I have the problem, that while booting the font size switches from reasonable font size to a tiny font. The first boot part with reasonable font size finishes when the kernel gets loaded.
How do I avoid the change?

@michaa7, have you tried

Code: [Select]

dpkg-reconfigure console-setup

The choices on font size depend on your graphics hardware, but here I can make quite a reasonable adjustment.

I now tried, but the bigger choices are for fb only, and as far as I know we don't use fb in siduction during boot.

Hi michaa7

In fluxbox it's used xterm.
If you want to change font size take a look to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xterm.

Thanks. This is very usefull info which I didn't find in "man xterm" (although there is a a bathful of font parameters). Using "ctrl-right-click" and selecting TTF fonts + medium/large gives reasonable fonts.

Tough I don't know how to make permanent chosen size for font.

Hmm, no ~.xtermrc or the like found, so we need to figure out how/where to save it.

EDIT:
Tree ways to save xterm settings or to start with custom settings:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=10974
https://gitorious.org/touparc/touparc/commit/49c1a9056b95c546cb099e573f50b03c711a88bf
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/xterm-rc-180931/
/EDIT

If you can share settings it will be great.

I'll do it tomorrow.

I really liked it if we (primarily you ;-) ) were able to create a better adapted xorg.iso based on fluxbox with some minor font corrections. Note: fluxbox settings only affect the fluxbox menue and the window decoration. Nothing else.
Each installed programm (for example gparted/gtk2) depends on it's toolkit (qt/kde, gtk).

[dibl]

... as far as I know we don't use fb in siduction during boot.

You might want to look a little deeper into that question -- I see choices based on framebuffer capability.   

[michaa7]

... as far as I know we don't use fb in siduction during boot.

You might want to look a little deeper into that question -- I see choices based on framebuffer capability.   

Yes, I do and did, too. But siduction doesn't use fb during boot.