Siduction Forum
Siduction Forum => Software - Support => Topic started by: este.el.paz on 2019/05/30, 23:10:37
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Folks:
Been running #siduction for a few months in a multi-boot environment on a '12 MacPro, and generally all is well, the system boots fast . . . shuts down fast . . . loads web pages fast . . . everything is fast . . . except it seems I've had intermittent response to "wake from suspend" . . . sometimes it's fast, and sometimes it's slow to revive . . . and sometimes it doesn't "wake up" at all, requiring reboot . . . ?? Kind of puts #siduction in a somewhat "back burner" status for a daily user . . . anything to try out to try to get "fast woke" on a consistent basis, rather than . . . sometimes yes, sometimes no??
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No idea what could be causing this as we have no other info than that it happens on a Mac Pro. All I can tell you that my Lenovo notebooks and a InfinityBook Pro 15 wake up instantly and always.
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No idea what could be causing this as we have no other info than that it happens on a Mac Pro. All I can tell you that my Lenovo notebooks and a InfinityBook Pro 15 wake up instantly and always.
@devil:
OK, thanks for the reply . . . yes, it's happening on a MacPro . . . as well as, "inconsistently" waking or not from suspend, i.e., each of the scenarios I described happened yesterday while trying to wake from suspend, first time, quickly, w/o hesitation of any kind; second time, slowly, with hesitation of half a minute; third time, did not wake at all. Due to the inconsistent nature of it, it's hard to establish a "pattern" of dysfunction. What other info would help out on a "diagnosis"??
e.e.p.
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For starters you could show us the output of inxi -v3
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For starters you could show us the output of inxi -v3
@-pc:~$ inxi -v3
System:
Host: -pc Kernel: 5.1.5-towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64
compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.14.5
Distro: siduction 18.3.0 Patience - kde - (201904152016)
base: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine:
Type: Desktop System: Apple product: MacPro5,1 v: 0.0 serial: <root required>
Mobo: Apple model: Mac-F221BEC8 serial: <root required> UEFI: Apple v: 138.0.0.0.0
date: 07/30/2018
CPU:
Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Xeon W3565 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Nehalem
rev: 5 L2 cache: 8192 KiB
flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 51068
Speed: 1596 MHz min/max: 1596/3325 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1596 2: 1596 3: 1596
4: 1596 5: 1596 6: 1596 7: 1596 8: 1596
Graphics:
Device-1: NVIDIA GK110 [GeForce GTX 780] vendor: eVga.com. driver: nouveau
v: kernel bus ID: 05:00.0
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
resolution: 1280x1024~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: NVF0 v: 4.3 Mesa 18.3.6 direct render: Yes
Network:
Device-1: Intel 82574L Gigabit Network driver: e1000e v: 3.2.6-k port: 2000
bus ID: 09:00.0
IF: enp9s0 state: down mac: 00:3e:e1:b7:89:f2
Device-2: Intel 82574L Gigabit Network driver: e1000e v: 3.2.6-k port: 1000
bus ID: 0a:00.0
Device-3: Broadcom and subsidiaries BCM4322 802.11a/b/g/n Wireless LAN
vendor: Apple AirPort Extreme driver: b43-pci-bridge v: N/A port: 1000
bus ID: 0d:00.0
IF-ID-1: enp10s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:3e:e1:b7:8a:de
IF-ID-2: wlan0 state: down mac: 12:84:5c:4c:53:8c
Drives:
Local Storage: total: 2.05 TiB used: 19.04 GiB (0.9%)
Info:
Processes: 245 Uptime: 5m Memory: 15.66 GiB used: 1.90 GiB (12.1%) Init: systemd
runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 Shell: bash v: 5.0.3 inxi: 3.0.32
pc:~$
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If I'm reading it correctly, the Nvidia code name for your GPU is "NVF0", and the chart here rates the power management support in the Nouveau driver as "WIP" which means Work In Progress.
https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/
:(
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If I'm reading it correctly, the Nvidia code name for your GPU is "NVF0", and the chart here rates the power management support in the Nouveau driver as "WIP" which means Work In Progress.
https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/ (https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/)
:(
@dibl:
Thanks for looking into that . . . the Nvidia GPU is not "original equipment" but was added to get the machine to qualify for "metal-friendly" status, so the machine could run OSX 10.14, which also has problems re-viving from "sleep." None of my other three versions of OSX has issues "waking" up (possibly because I installed the Nvidia drivers?), but some of the various other linux options . . . possibly the OpenSUSE selections . . . have "issues" with waking from "suspend" . . . but, I'm pretty sure I kept all of the linux installs running "nouveau" . . . . So, some of them wake quickly, and others don't . . . .
This sort of takes me back to my early forays into PPC linux, where getting "video" at all was a major ordeal . . . creating an xorg.conf file . . . in total blackness of the display, that kind of thing. This problem isn't that dramatic, but it just means having to shut down when "suspend" might be handier, etc.
Possibly looking into any Nvidia oem drivers for linux, might be an "answer" to this thread???
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Yes, I too crashed and burned on the early (~2004) Linux graphics implementations -- ATI Radeon vs. fglrx, and the loser was dibl. ;D
I have the impression that I may be the last user of the proprietary Nvidia driver on this forum, as the ATI support seems to have vastly improved in recent years. If I were you, and had your issue, I would first try booting with the nomodeset boot option, just to see whether it makes any difference. If it does not, then I would blacklist the nouveau driver, and try installing the nvidia-driver from the debian repo. It should pull in everything except nvidia-settings which you'll have to install separately. Good luck with it. Somewhere in the history of this forum there were instructions on how to change from nouveau to nvidia and back again -- maybe a search could find it.
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Yes, I too crashed and burned on the early (~2004) Linux graphics implementations -- ATI Radeon vs. fglrx, and the loser was dibl. ;D
I have the impression that I may be the last user of the proprietary Nvidia driver on this forum, as the ATI support seems to have vastly improved in recent years. If I were you, and had your issue, I would first try booting with the nomodeset boot option, just to see whether it makes any difference. If it does not, then I would blacklist the nouveau driver, and try installing the nvidia-driver from the debian repo. It should pull in everything except nvidia-settings which you'll have to install separately. Good luck with it. Somewhere in the history of this forum there were instructions on how to change from nouveau to nvidia and back again -- maybe a search could find it.
@dibl:
Thanks kindly for the suggestions . . . I may or may not "mess with it" . . . just depends on if I'm feeling "frisky" enough to deal with it . . . . In that, as we both seem to know from experience, if something gets "dropped" in the "video xxxx - xxx" file . . . the result is . . . darkness or, possibly worse. : - ))
One thing that is kind of nice about "ubuntu" products is that they have an "additional drivers" app . . . that looks for and installs the options available for your specific machine/install . . . makes it "easier" to switch video drivers . . . on the fly so to speak . . . . I'll have to search around and see what shows up as per your "install/uninstall for nouveau to nvidia" and see what shows up . . . right now we have a 33 1/3% success rate on waking up from suspend . . . i.e., it's not 0% . . . it's just not higher than 75%.
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It seems you're afraid of a black screen. With X, mind you. A tty also has a black screen, but white text. ;-)
You can install/uninstall, blacklist or otherwise configure on a virtual console at any time.
Well, on Ubuntu it's easier because there are never up-to-date kernel versions.
On siduction this is more difficult. nvidia 390.116 (sid) should be compatible with kernel 5.1. nvidia 430.14 (experimental) also and with Kernel 5.2-rc1 - exceptionally (current is rc2, this night rc3 should come).
But with newer kernels the issue will start again. You should monitor rglinuxtech.com (http://rglinuxtech.com/).
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If you want to disable suspend, you can do this with systemctl: https://wiki.debian.org/Suspend (https://wiki.debian.org/Suspend)
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@axt:
Thanks for the details on the various nividia driver options . . . but, yes, I have a deep seated fear of the black screen . . . the **empty** screen . . . . Sometimes there have been times when the tty will work when the video won't, but over in PPC back in the day, there would be total dysfunction . . . unless a 1/3 green color hovering over 2/3 black screen was your cup of tea . . . .
But, I'm a more or less "lazy" linux operator . . . so it doesn't seem like getting into the various nvidia options for #siduction would be the "low maintenance" way to go . . . . But, I also don't think I'd want to disable suspend either . . . I'll just keep my fingers crossed and "hope" that sometime soon the nouveau devs will finish with the WIP . . . and all will be right with the power management system.
Thanks though, who knows, if we get some unusual rainy days in SoCal I might have time to play with nvidia drivers . . . what's the worst that could happen . . . only the shadow knows . . . .
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root@dibl-patience:/# inxi -G
Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GP106 [GeForce GTX 1060 6GB] driver: nvidia v: 418.74
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: nvidia resolution: 1920x1200~60Hz, 1920x1080~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 418.74
root@dibl-patience:/# apt policy nvidia-driver
nvidia-driver:
Installed: 418.74-1
Candidate: 418.74-1
Version table:
*** 418.74-1 500
500 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian unstable/non-free amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
You can't get in a lot of trouble trying the Nvidia driver -- you can always go back to Nouveau if it's not better.
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root@dibl-patience:/# inxi -G
Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GP106 [GeForce GTX 1060 6GB] driver: nvidia v: 418.74
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: nvidia resolution: 1920x1200~60Hz, 1920x1080~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 418.74
root@dibl-patience:/# apt policy nvidia-driver
nvidia-driver:
Installed: 418.74-1
Candidate: 418.74-1
Version table:
*** 418.74-1 500
500 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian unstable/non-free amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
You can't get in a lot of trouble trying the Nvidia driver -- you can always go back to Nouveau if it's not better.
@dibl:
Thanks, looks pretty basic, once you know the command to run . . . I might as well try it out. But, I can't tell if I need to add something to the /sources.list . . . i.e., you are showing me something with the "500" and "100" lines . . . OR, all I would have to do is run # apt policy nvidia-driver . . . and the rest is done??
I'll try that in a few minutes, if it went well I'll post back . . . if it didn't then I assume I'll be posting from, "the black" . . . . : - ))
[edit: a few minutes later, I ran the code and got: apt policy nvidia-driver
nvidia-driver:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 418.74-1
Version table:
418.74-1 500
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/non-free amd64 PackagesSo, this is telling me that the package is the same one for your card, and it's in the "non-free Packages" ?? Is this something where I run "apt install nvidia-driver 418.74-1" ??? Or, is this something that "synaptic" would find and install? ??? ?
[edit2: Ran it through synaptic and rebooted--heard the GPU spin up, figured it went well . . . got:
inxi -G
Graphics:
Device-1: NVIDIA GK110 [GeForce GTX 780] driver: nvidia v: 418.74
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: nvidia
unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1280x1024~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GTX 780/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 418.74I'll report back on the revive from suspend aspect, later . . . . Thanks @dibl for the boost on it.
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I hereby suggest to spend some money for a new graphics card. If i read it right we talk about a card that is only some years younger than my beloved GT 7300. And before others write it: Nouveau and Plasma is a no go - you are fine if you can run the current nvidia-driver, not the legacy ones.
Edit: Please forget the recommendation to buy a new card - just install the `nvidia-driver` form unstable and be done with. It is worth a try.
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[size=0px]Edit: Please forget the recommendation to buy a new card - just install the `nvidia-driver` form unstable and be done with. It is worth a try.[/size]
@melmarker:
Thanks for the comments . . . this card "was" the upgrade that was "reasonable" in price, and yet also qualified for "metal-friendly" . . . .
So, as of the last part of my edited post . . . I did install the "nvidia-driver" by way of synaptic . . . so I'm "in" with nvidia drivers . . . haven't yet tried to revive from the suspend state I left Siduction in . . . and whether or not the regular update/upgrade process would pull in the next optional nvidia-driver updates????
Otherwise, I'm in Plasma and I'm out of Nouveau . . . . Back in PPC world we couldn't use Nouveau, and the sage wisdom was to try to get to the place where the machine would qualify for Nouveau . . . . Times change I suppose . . . .
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my beloved GT 7300
Gibt's nicht. Falls Du eine GeForce 7300 GT meinst, die ist von 2006 und würde proprietär einzig mit legacy nvidia 304.x laufen. Eine GeForce GT 730 dagegen ist Generationen weiter von 2014 (seine GeForce GTX 780 von 2013), nvidia 430.14.
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I did install the "nvidia-driver" by way of synaptic
You should break away from synaptic. Use a terminal (or a console)!
whether or not the regular update/upgrade process would pull in the next optional nvidia-driver updates? ???
Learn the basics! You have installed nvidia-driver, a metapackage, currently 418.74-1. If a newer version comes, you will get it automatically via the package management with apt.
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die gibts und die war von 2006 und der Treiber 304 stimmt auch - dooferweise ist der so buggy, dass plasma nich sauber läuft.
axt was right, the card was from 2006 and runs clean in my machine, neverless there is not such place where noveau runs clean with plasma - maybe in a few years. Alternativ: Buy AMD and use the open source drivers.
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I did install the "nvidia-driver" by way of synaptic
You should break away from synaptic. Use a terminal (or a console)!
whether or not the regular update/upgrade process would pull in the next optional nvidia-driver updates? ???
Learn the basics! You have installed nvidia-driver, a metapackage, currently 418.74-1. If a newer version comes, you will get it automatically via the package management with apt.
@axt:
Yes, you are right, I should use the terminal, but that requires knowledge of the correct command or version number, which sometimes I use synaptic to show me the package number, but in this case it didn't work out, so since all the packages and meta were loaded I simply clicked "go" . . . and it installed it . . . .
And, yes, the basics, for the most part it isn't an area of concern, but, in the nvidia world it appears to be different, as someone mentioned in this thread before I installed . . . that "nividia would have to be updated with each kernel upgrade" . . . they didn't say, "If you just run apt update/upgrade the nvidia upgrades will be taken care of . . . " In my OSX installs I have an nvidia applet that I have to click on to show updates and then install them, OSX doesn't do that, so I wasn't sure . . . hence my question on it . . . thanks for answering it.
So far the only difference in switching away from nouveau is that in the dmesg???? now there are some ephemeral video artifacts that show up in the upper one third of the screen, otherwise the display is clear. But, as of last night's "wake from suspend" test went . . . no response to key stroke or mouse click . . . no wake from suspend . . . no blue light on the dispaly to indicate a signal was received . . . . So, that is a more "decisive" response than the previously intermittent nouveau driver provided . . . I'll cycle through a few update/upgrades to see if anything changes . . . .
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@et al:
Oopsie . . . something went "sideways" on me . . . seems like my fear of "the black screen" has pulled me into the dark vortex of . . . blackness . . . . Booted Siduction this morning and that went well, again did not revive from suspend with keystroke or mouse, but, pushing power button did bring the Siduction log in screen . . . . Did my usual checks of various items online . . . somewhere in there was a Plasma "updates available" symbol in the toolbar . . . I was doing other stuff so I just clicked "install" . . . went to eat breakfast . . . came back and the "progress bars" on the two updates showed something like "34%" . . . but the spinning arrows weren't spinning?? I refreshed the page and it showed "no updates, system up to date" . . . continued on with using Siduction . . . . Then I wanted to restart back into OSX and I held the alt/option key down to get the OSX boot manager window . . . nothing, went to GRUB, which the grub window loaded, but couldn't tab down through the menu . . . the top item is "Leap 15.1" . . . it says it's loading, but, screen goes . . . black" . . . . Display power button shows "blue" like it is receiving video, but nothing appears . . . .
I had this "frozen Grub" issue last week, as I was going through my various linux installs to update them, but it "solved itself" when I shut the computer down. So far on a number of reboots Grub is the only thing that loads, it's "frozen" to the top choice, which doesn't boot.
I pulled the two HDs that have "multi-boot" partitions, i.e., a number of systems in the EFI partition, and I just left in the SSD that has only OSX 10.14.5 installed . . . computer boots up fine, video works, had the side door off, and the **old** Nvidia card has a spinning "fan" . . . . With all the HDs in . . . problem is back. Ideas??
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Ideas:
1. Siduction (Sid) is really not the distro for a person with character-mode-phobia. The plasma desktop is a beautiful and powerful thing, but the only system maintenance that you should do on the plasma desktop is to use Konsole to download an update (DOWNLOAD, not run!). In a root Konsole session (you need to enable kdesu) you can issue
apt update && apt full-upgrade -d
2. If you plug in only one hdd at a time, you will discover which one is interfering with booting. Then you can examine that one and find something wrong, like a grub installation where it does not belong.
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Ideas:
1. Siduction (Sid) is really not the distro for a person with character-mode-phobia. The plasma desktop is a beautiful and powerful thing, but the only system maintenance that you should do on the plasma desktop is to use Konsole to download an update (DOWNLOAD, not run!). In a root Konsole session (you need to enable kdesu) you can issue
apt update && apt full-upgrade -d
2. If you plug in only one hdd at a time, you will discover which one is interfering with booting. Then you can examine that one and find something wrong, like a grub installation where it does not belong.
@dibl:
Thanks for the reply . . . I have "phobias" . . . but don't recognize "character-mode" phobia . . . but I do recognize "pilot error" as a problem . . . and I trace it to something I did in the Siduction OS this morning. The updates I ran through the GUI were two "linux-header" updates . . . I think I ran the Konsole update/upgrade last night, and there were a few upgrades, possibly a new kernel . . . but seemingly over night the "linux-header" items needed to be installed a few hours later. That would be a "painful" lesson to learn that the GUI can't be used at all in the Siduction system . . . which it seems to be the case . . . things are all busted up in there now . . . .
I tried to boot each HD separately, but the two HDs that have both OSX & linux installs that show up in Grub won't boot at all. I have a Startech USB3 to SATA adaptor/connector that I'm going to try to plug into the drive and try to "mount" the drive in the 10.14 system, having to pull the drives out is the only way to get into a system . . . . I couldn't get to a tty or anything in linux or anything in either of the two Hds . . . but I won't be able to get to that process for a day or so . . . . Probably OSX will only "see" the other OSX installs, the question is whether somehow if the OSX partitions get mounted, if that would also bring up the linux systems for possible repairs . . . .
I used to have "Grubrepair2" or something like that, that would in fact "repair Grub" but lately it hasn't worked, and the only answer was "nuke n pave" . . . .
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Gut feeling: Try it again and at least read the manpages of problem packages like grub.
And please - there is this <Enter> key on your keyboard - use it. Thanks.
@dibl mentioned it - get familar with apt in the terminal, otherwise siduction isn't the right distribution for you. Might sound hard, unfortunatly it is the reality. The other things are easy:
* come to our irc channel and ask for a current KDE/Plasma image
* install it, add the current nvidia-driver and be happy. Synaptics might not like a bit older images, we don't to but had no chance.
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Gut feeling: Try it again and at least read the manpages of problem packages like grub.
And please - there is this <Enter> key on your keyboard - use it. Thanks.
@melmarker: Thanks for the follow-up thoughts . . . to me "manpages" is like reading the dictionary, it tells you the "meaning" of a word, but not really how to use it practically speaking. But, what are you suggesting that "enter" be used for?? Is this in relationship to using the Konsole to upgrade the system, rather than using the mouse to click on stuff??
@dibl mentioned it - get familar with apt in the terminal, otherwise siduction isn't the right distribution for you. Might sound hard, unfortunatly it is the reality. The other things are easy:
* come to our irc channel and ask for a current KDE/Plasma image
* install it, add the current nvidia-driver and be happy. Synaptics might not like a bit older images, we don't to but had no chance.
And, alrighty, yes, I have used apt-get/apt over the years . . . it's not radically different than using the GUI, but right now I have 5 linux systems, or had 5, one of which is "Tumbleweed" and that also requires regular updates . . . used to be in PPC there was guidance to "never use the GUI to update" . . . but with the recent editions it seemed like the GUI updater was just fine . . . .
We'll see how this all shakes out, if I have to nuke n pave, then in the re-installs all of the OSX installs will go in one HD, and all of the linux will go in the other, rather than how they got mixed in due to having only one HD at the beginning . . . .
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But, what are you suggesting that "enter" be used for?
You shall use paragraphs. There are grammatical rules. If you continue like this, soon no one will answer you anymore.
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But, what are you suggesting that "enter" be used for?
You shall use paragraphs. There are grammatical rules. If you continue like this, soon no one will answer you anymore.
@axt:
OK, well, thanks for that clarification. . . must be something "server side" . . . as I'm putting a space gap between my pars, but the server seems to shrink them up when the post gets posted???
I now hit return/enter key twice . . . likely there will be a time gap in the posts, as the devastation rendered to the various drives has been "substantial" . . . making the keyboard useless as far as trying to get the boot manager to open, or trying to boot a "grub repair" disk, or trying to boot "recovery" . . . so more or less all of the linux installs are now "remote" . . . . EFI partition has been damaged beyond capacity for DU repair in at least one of the partitions . . . it's going to take some time to get things cleaned up . . . perhaps next time a DE that is more friendly with Siduction than Plasma appears to be?
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@gents:
Latest update, yesterday I pulled the damaged HD, but still could only boot to OSX using "Startup disk" . . . which I did a few times.
This morning I cold booted with alt/option key and the Siduction version of Grub loaded the list and I could scroll through it.
I selected Siduction and it took a while to load the system, not its usual frisky self . . . ran an update/upgrade . . . put it into "suspend" . . . few minutes later . . . revived via key stroke.
So, the Siduction side of things is "back to normal" . . . still yet to figure out if its possible to repair the EFI partition in the third HD that somehow got "busted up" running an update in Plasma rather than Konsole.
This post was configured with 5 (five) distinct paragraphs for easy reading and comprehension . . . hitting the return key 5 times as was requested . . . .
[edit: Looks like I misspoke, on trying to revive from suspend a second time keystroke, mouse click and power button did not load the GUI . . . and shutting down and cold booting with alt/option key did not bring the boot manager or load the Grub window . . . so, back to the "intermittent" revival issues, and or intermittent capacity to get into the linux options . . . "square one" or "square -1" . . . . [/edit]
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But, what are you suggesting that "enter" be used for?
You shall use paragraphs. There are grammatical rules. If you continue like this, soon no one will answer you anymore.
@axt:
OK, well, thanks for that clarification. . . must be something "server side" . . . as I'm putting a space gap between my pars, but the server seems to shrink them up when the post gets posted???
I've noticed this too and it only happens on this forum and in replies on Quora. For correct formatting at least a double line break is needed for paragraphs. I had to insert 5 line breaks here to create a space before the next paragraph. :P
. . . perhaps next time a DE that is more friendly with Siduction than Plasma appears to be?
That's a strange thing to say. KDE Plasma 5 is the flagship DE for siduction and works very well for myself and almost every other user.
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@sunrat:
Thanks for the data on also experiencing the paragraph "issue" as well . . . I think for the last post I hit return 3x to get a single space between pars . . . .
3 returns here, well, it seems like Siduction has "survived" the system demolition, so I won't mess with it; I'll just have to figure out how to revive the third HD with the damaged EFI partition, and then figure if it will become "purely" linux . . . . But, main problem is that the boot manager window isn't working, and Grub seems intermittent . . . but it will boot into OSX and using startup disk gets me around to another version of OSX . . . . : - 0