Siduction Forum

Siduction Forum => Upgrade Warnings => Topic started by: musca on 2015/04/24, 15:49:57

Title: D-U-Warning: Jessie released last weekend of April
Post by: musca on 2015/04/24, 15:49:57
Hello,

since 5th of November jessie is frozen and so sid was partially frozen (aka slushy: only minor updates for bugfixes  permitted). The debian release team has set 25/04/2015 as the ETA (Estimated time of arrival).

The next development cycle will start with a copy of Jessie in the new testing repo named "Stretch" and Sid being unstable as always. Then debian will be unfrozen and a flood of packages will stream into unstable. After 10 days packages without known issues can migrate into testing.
 
For siduction user this means: Immediately after the jessie release the gates of experimental repo will be opened and packages will run into unstable like a stampede (https://youtu.be/tfB18zOswaE) of wild GNUs. (just imagine you want to sort out the zebras ...)

So be prepared and make your last easy dist-upgrade today (Friday, 24/04/2015).

Things will eventually become rough afterwards and so you will better stay away from dist-upgrading a few days.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: melmarker on 2015/04/24, 17:12:21
In not so nice words - the gates of hell will be opened and there are chances to mess up systems completely. So - unless you really know what you doing - read the apt-output and the upgrade warnings twice before any upgrade. If in doubt, don't press 'y'.

PS: In case bad things happend - a current backup might be a good idea
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: Millie on 2015/04/24, 20:30:46
Thanks for the info, guys. This is my first "season" with Siduction, and it looks like it will be a stormy one for me. A lot to learn.
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: vilde on 2015/04/24, 20:51:04
Thanks for the info, guys. This is my first "season" with Siduction, and it looks like it will be a stormy one for me. A lot to learn.
My experience is that the "hell" is most for the siduction team, they do a very good work to wipe away the "hell" before it reach us users. Just  wait a little, take care, read the "Upgrade Warnings" before d-u and do as melmarker wrote, check the output from apt before pressing y to an d-u.
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: melmarker on 2015/04/24, 21:13:25
To be true, i don't expect that much breakages or total messed up systems for experienced users - but for new users that never has the chance to play with sid directly after a debian release the times might be rough. So better safe than sorry 8) - Maybe i'm getting old and a little to much paranoid.

For myself i have a plan: Ignore any warnings, install whatever hit sid and have fun - unless the new packages in sid are to old ...
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: vilde on 2015/04/24, 21:29:30
...........................
For myself i have a plan: Ignore any warnings, install whatever hit sid and have fun - unless the new packages in sid are to old ...
That's living on the edge  8)
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: melmarker on 2015/04/24, 21:37:44
The cool thing about the release is: I don't have to fetch packages from experimental or build them myself. And that helps a lot.
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: piper on 2015/04/25, 14:35:53
Quote from: Millie
Thanks for the info, guys. This is my first "season" with Siduction, and it looks like it will be a stormy one for me. A lot to learn.

Hi Millie, your best bet would be to keep a close eye on this forum

Upgrade Warnings (DE / EN) (http://forum.siduction.org/index.php?board=22.0)

Or the IRC channel.

I myself love the floodgates from hell  :)
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: musca on 2015/04/25, 16:42:52
confirmed, the release is in progress:  https://identi.ca/debian
The amd64 images are available for tests.
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: seasons on 2015/04/25, 18:07:00
This is my first "season" with Siduction

You rang? ;)

Quote from: melmarker
For myself i have a plan: Ignore any warnings, install whatever hit sid and have fun - unless the new packages in sid are too old ...
Yes! I'm with you. Let's find those packaging bugs!
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: DeepDayze on 2015/04/25, 19:33:59
...........................
For myself i have a plan: Ignore any warnings, install whatever hit sid and have fun - unless the new packages in sid are to old ...
That's living on the edge  8)

Some of us are insane enough for that  8) ;D
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: melmarker on 2015/04/25, 20:04:38
hey - i will be very careful if i hit 'y' - its my production system :D
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: Millie on 2015/04/25, 21:42:44
This is my first "season" with Siduction

You rang? ;)

 ;D LOL!


Thanks for the feedback everyone. This is a great forum!
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: dibl on 2015/04/25, 23:13:09
First d-u this afternoon (U.S. Eastern) was peaceful.  LibreOffice, open-symbol fonts, curl, and some libraries came in, but there was no trouble.  Maybe tomorrow will be more exciting.   ;D
Title: Re: Prewarning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: cas on 2015/04/27, 21:04:33
Just out of curiosity. What does this mean?

So - unless you really know what you doing

Quote
read the apt-output and the upgrade warnings twice before any upgrade.

yes, I read the apt-output, etc, but this obviously doesn't qualify me, calling myself "I really know what I do"   8)

So, what kind of experience, knowledge is meant?

greetings, C
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: tuxic on 2015/04/27, 22:06:17
Quote
yes, I read the apt-output, etc, but this obviously doesn't qualify me, calling myself "I really know what I do"


If you read that apt will remove 129 packages... I think that you will say NO!!!
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: musca on 2015/04/27, 22:30:53
Hello cas,
we are not talking about secret knowledge but just normal handling of issues.

"Know what you are doing!"  means major breakage is accepted.

You have prepared your rescue media (with network access) and checked your recent backups.
You know how to chroot into a broken system to diagnose and repair the damage (see our manual).
At least you know how to ask for help on the net. It will take some time.

Well, all this is useful in any similar case caused by  operating error, hardware malfunction, theft, fire or water damage.
Enjoy your self-confidence!

greetings
musca
 
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: KrunchTime on 2015/04/28, 04:18:42
@Millie:  Yes, it has been a while since the last stable release, so you are a bit spoiled by having only used Siduction for a year; especially the last year prior to a new stable release.

@cas:  I'm not saying to ignore some of the statements/warnings in this thread, but don't let such statements/warnings discourage you from continuing to use Siduction.  Like anything, using Debian Unstable is a learning experience.  Yes, you will make mistakes.  Yes, you will get frustrated.  However, you will learn a lot in the process as well.  My brief time with Siduction last year increased my Linux knowledge exponentially.

A skill that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is knowing when and how to place packages on hold.  I'm still new at the skill, so unfortunately I can't pass along any words of wisdom to you.  Perhaps someone with more experience can respond and provide such info.

On the other hand, if you really don't have the time, there's nothing wrong with that.  Shelve using Siduction or Debian Unstable until you do have the time.  ;)
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: lub on 2015/04/30, 18:56:25
A skill that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is knowing when and how to place packages on hold.


apt-mark hold <package>
apt-mark unhold <package>
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: musca on 2015/04/30, 19:43:02
Thx lub!
It's as easy as duct tape and wd40. You don't need an engineering flowchart (https://www.google.de/search?q=duct+tape+wd40+flowchart&tbm=isch).

btw, Package python3.4 version 3.4.3-5 has arrived and solved some problem.

greetings
musca
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: vayu on 2015/04/30, 21:43:00
I have a policy I learned the hard way of the cliche, when in doubt, do without. I do my upgrades often, but I skip at even a feeling. Even with my hard lessons, I've loved my experience with siduction. I think I'm coming close to two years with the same system I started with.  I broke it a couple times, being dumb, but being not entirely dumb and with great help here, always got it back, usually with a little patience for it to resolve upstream.
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: vayu on 2015/04/30, 21:43:31
I better knock on wood now :)
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: KrunchTime on 2015/05/01, 01:22:07
apt-mark hold <package>
apt-mark unhold <package>
The how part is easy.  Knowing when to place a package on hold and when to remove the hold requires more knowledge/experience.

@vayu:  Regarding your first post, sometimes it's better just to place problem packages on hold rather than skipping upgrades.
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: melmarker on 2015/05/01, 01:28:34
@KrunchTime - i can't suggest holds at all - they should be the last resort. Mostly it should be sufficent to wait with dist-upgrades some times, in case of longer standing bugs we try to provide a fixed package. For the die hards - it is possible to make a system upgrade without using apt-get dist-upgrade. Just use apt-get install $foo - leave out the packages that could do any harm.

Edit: It can happend that one has longer standing problems with the upgrades - a good start is to figure it out in IRC, if others don't have the problems, sometimes apt behave a little bit strange on fast moving targets like sid.
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: KrunchTime on 2015/05/01, 01:46:49
@melmarker:  Thank you for your input regarding holds.  In general, I agree with you - holds should be a last resort.

I've also performed upgrades without apt-get dist-upgrade as you've described.  It can be quite cumbersome to perform upgrades using that method.
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie release this weekend.
Post by: melmarker on 2015/05/01, 02:22:27
Normally™ that shouldn't be necessary. But we are in rough times - so i do it on a regular base. If packages are hold back, there are reasons for it - and if there are no simple reasons (ongoing transitions, multiarch) i want to know these reasons mostly. And yes, its pain in the ass.
Title: Re: D-U-Warning: Jessie released last weekend.
Post by: KrunchTime on 2015/05/04, 07:49:12
@melmarker:  Seems like a good candidate for a script.