[EN] Siduction questions

[Mikethatike]

(I Know You Guys Do not like duplicate posts but i accidently    put the first thread in the German part of the forums)Hello all! I have been looking for a nice Debian based distro and am currently interested in this one! First i have a few questions!

Does this distro come with the muon software manger. If it doesnt how do i install it.

Is debian sid for me? I need a reliable and working distro at pretty much all times and I LOVE having relivally up to date sofware.

Does this os come with a compiler for Java or any Java tools?

Does this Os come with the basic drivers wifi, graphics?

Thats all i can think of right now thanks and cheers!  :wink:

[piper]

1) siduction comes with with no package manager at all and the preferred and recommended way to install packages is apt (cli). You are on your own with muon as it is not a debian package.

2) siduction is based on debian sid (unstable). It is up to you and your knowledge if you feel comfortable in a sid environment.

3) java-compiler - http://packages.debian.org/sid/java-compiler

Java tools - libvelocity-tools-java - http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/libvelocity-tools-java

4) depending on your wifi and video card they can be easily installed, they do not ship with ATI/AMD or Nvidia drivers, please have a look at out manual to see how easy it is.

Wifi again depends on chipset

[michaa7]

(I Know You Guys Do not like duplicate posts but i accidently    put the first thread in the German part of the forums)

No problem. Hi and welcome to siduction (maybe)

Does this distro come with the muon software manger. If it doesnt how do i install it.

First time I hear of it, so the answer is "no". Install what? Siduction is installed by downloading one of the ISOs, copying it to an USB stick (read howto), boot and use the installer (You may burn a CD as well if you like ... and if you choose one ISO that still fits on a CD. You may use DVD, too.)

...I need a reliable and working distro at pretty much all times and I LOVE having relivally up to date sofware.

Debian/sid offers cutting edge software. Cutting edge software is by design ***not*** reliable and working all the time. That's the bad news.
Now the good news. You found siduction. What does this mean? Apart from making Debian/sid directly installable it helps to make it as reliable as it can be and to provide help and solutions (fixes) within a short space of time. But to avoid complications beforehand user are expected to follow some simple rules: Read update warning forum before you dist-upgrade (which is the only recommended way to update, you never ever use the "update" option), update (=dist-upgrade) out of X.

Does this os come with a compiler for Java or any Java tools?

siduction is 100% Debian/sid compatible. You don't have Oracle java, but OpenJDK and gcj and tons of java tools.

Does this Os come with the basic drivers wifi, graphics?

basic? Yes. All needed non-free drivers? Not in the ISO. You have to do some extra work (configure non-free Debian software repo, install firmware. For WLAN there are situations where you might need a LAN connection to d/l some non-free firmware first.

Best you could do. Boot one of the ISOs and get a live experience. You may temporatily install drivers in live mode. You may as well search the Debian repos. You should read some basic chapters of the manual.

Good luck.

[Mikethatike]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Does this distro come with the muon software manger. If it doesnt how do i install it.

Yeah I know how to install and  Burn the Iso to the DVD i was asking if it comes with the Muon sofware Manger or Muon package manager. At the point the Synthetic Package Manage would be okay.I guess i doesn't have either

Debian/sid offers cutting edge software. Cutting edge software is by design ***not*** reliable and working all the time. That's the bad news.
Now the good news. You found siduction. What does this mean?

Apart from making Debian/sid directly installable it helps to make it as reliable as it can be and to provide help and solutions (fixes) within a short space of time. But to avoid complications beforehand user are expected to follow some simple rules: Read update warning forum before you dist-upgrade (which is the only recommended way to update, you never ever use the "update" option), update (=dist-upgrade) out of X.

Not reliable well that sucks I do need to try to get into the habit of reading the update and what it does though before simply pressing update! though updating straight from the terminal can be a problem unless it tells me whats going to install.

You don't have Oracle java, but OpenJDK and gcj and tons of java tools.

That should work all I need is a compiler and a Java virtual machine.

Wifi must work out the box as i have no LAN connection(Wifi or slow 3G hotspot all the time.... But i do have lots of Intel hardware and I see that Linux likes Intel lol)

Gee i do like the community  here the English community  over on the distro I have is quite barren and empty...

I am wondering though if it is possible to have a Debian distro that has up to date kernel and software but is based on Debian Stable or Testing. I have read that Sid is not something to play around with! Does anyone know a distro like that or if it is even possible. 2-3hour left till I can try siduction. slow 34kb download speed 3g great the download is stalling again...

Also can someone please explain to me the difference between Debian Squeeze,Wheezy,and Jessie

[piper]

Ok, first, don't take this the wrong way, obviously you are brand spanking new to linux,  or, your coming from a ubuntu/ubuntu-based distro based on the questions

Yeah I know how to install and Burn the Iso to the DVD i was asking if it comes with the Muon sofware Manger or Muon package manager.

If you read the very first response ....  and the part that says Muon sofware Manger/Muon package manager is not debian and Synthetic Package Manager was way back in the days of BeOs, (which I used a lot) not even sure if it exists anymore with haiku and I am not googling it.

Perhaps you mean Synaptic Package Manager which is not supported or recommended in siduction nor is any package manager

I do need to try to get into the habit of reading the update and what it does though before simply pressing update!

All I can say is the majority of linux distros with the exception of ubuntu/ubuntu based won't do hand holding, which means a lot of reading has to be done by the user and there is no such thing in sid as simply pressing update. Again, it is a pain in the ass, but you would really have to read the very fine Bluewater Manual to get a basic understanding of how siduction works.

Apt will tell you what it installs/removes and you will have to pay close attention to that and we have a page on the forums that trys its best to keep users informed on the status of a dist-upgrade which is located at Upgrade Warnings DE & EN



We don't do updates in sid, instead we do dist-upgrades, and example of a proper dist-upgrade is as follows

Code: [Select]

ctrl+alt+f1
su (then password)
init 3 && apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
If you want a point & click operating system, siduction is not for you

If you want to read the manual, forums, irc, very possible siduction will work for you, there is a learning curve, however and the user will have to read

Also can someone please explain to me the difference between Debian Squeeze,Wheezy,and Jessie

let me google that for you


Welcome to siduction

and again,  don't take this post the wrong way, just giving you a heads up on whats involved compared to the buntu's, it's a whole new ballgame, one that can be enjoyed greatly and a learning experience

[seasons]

I've been using sid in some form for 3-4 years now, and I've always used Synaptic as my primary package manager. No problems here..

As far as muon, you can always build your own.
http://download.kde.org/stable/muon/2.0.1/src/muon-2.0.1.tar.bz2.mirrorlist

Just remember that if you use a non-recommended package manager, and run into trouble, you're probably on your own.

[dibl]

I've been using sid in some form for 3-4 years now, and I've always used Synaptic as my primary package manager. No problems here ...

Just remember that if you use a non-recommended package manager, and run into trouble, you're probably on your own.

Yes you are.

It is certainly your system to do with as you see fit, but the manual is clear on the guidance for updating the system -- here is the quote:

dist-upgrade - The Steps

NEVER EVER do a dist-upgrade nor upgrade whilst in X

Always check Current Warnings on the siduction main web site. The warnings are there for a reason due to the very nature of unstable (Debian sid), which also updates 4 times per day.

Log out of KDE.
Go to Textmode by doing Ctrl+Alt+F1
logon as root,
and then type:
init 3
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get clean
init 5 && exit

NEVER DIST-UPGRADE [or UPGRADE] with adept or synaptic:

If you do not go to init 3, well tough for you, you have been warned!

The Reasons NOT to use anything else but apt-get or aptitude for a dist-upgrade:

Package managers like adept, synaptic and kpackage are not always able to account for the huge amount of changes which happen in Sid (depedency changes, name changes, maintainer script changes, ...).

This is not the fault of the developers of those tools though, they write excellent tools for the debian stable branch, they are simply just not suitable for the very special needs of Debian Sid.

Use whatever you like to search for packages, but stick with apt-get for actually installing/removing/dist-upgrading.

Package managers like adept, synaptic and kpackage are at the least, non-deterministic (for complex package selection), mix that with a quickly moving target like sid and even worse an external repository of questionable quality (we don't use or recommend those, but they're a reality on your user systems) and you will be courting disaster.

The other item to note is that all of these types of GUI package managers need to run in in X, and in doing a dist-upgrade in X, (or even an 'upgrade' which is not recommended), you will end up damaging up your system beyond repair, maybe not today or tomorrow, however in time you will.

apt-get on the other hand strictly does what it is asked to do, if there is any breakage you can pinpoint and debug/ fix the cause, if apt-get wants to remove half of the system (due to library transitions) it's the admin's call (that means you) to have at least a serious look.

This is the reason why debian builds use apt-get, not the other package manager tools.

[piper]

I've been using sid in some form for 3-4 years now, and I've always used Synaptic as my primary package manager. No problems here..

As far as muon, you can always build your own.
http://download.kde.org/stable/muon/2.0.1/src/muon-2.0.1.tar.bz2.mirrorlist

Just remember that if you use a non-recommended package manager, and run into trouble, you're probably on your own.

Over 10 years now with sid, sooner or later synaptic will bite you in the ass, I, once, in my early days got bit by synaptic, now, I don't build with it nor install it period, not even on debian stable.

but the good thing is Choice is good

[spacepenguin]

I am wondering though if it is possible to have a Debian distro that has up to date kernel and software but is based on Debian Stable or Testing

Up to date software and based on Debian Stable? Isn't that an oxymoron?
But if you are looking for an alternative to try you could take a look at Kanotix, it is basend on Debian Stable and has a recent kernel. But siduction never has been unreliable for me!