I've been using Kubuntu for several years. I'm wanting a rolling release for KDE. I also want to have Cinnamon Desktop installed on my 2nd computer and would prefer using the same base distribution. I need some assistance to do that, there are some things I don't know how to go about.
Is there a base install of siduction without a desktop environment? Would the procedure to install another desktop be install a base system, install login manager, install Cinnamon? Would someone be willing to outline the steps for me?
(I did it successfully with Debian testing Gnome, which I then upgraded to unstable, then I installed Cinnamon from the unstable repositories and it all went well. I would like to do the same with siduction. Here's the catch, if possible I'd like to not start with Gnome. Would that be too much to explain or might that be reasonably possible?)
Welcome!
Quote from: "vayu"I'm wanting a rolling release for KDE.
That's easy -- siduction offers a KDE "flavor".
Quote
I also want to have Cinnamon Desktop installed on my 2nd computer and would prefer using the same base distribution.
I don't know anything about cinammon, but there it is in the debian unstable repo:
root@tosh205:/home/don# apt-cache policy cinnamon
cinnamon:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 1.7.4-2
Version table:
1.7.4-2 0
500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main i386 PackagesQuoteIs there a base install of siduction without a desktop environment?
Yes, there is the nox (no "X") flavor. But how does this fit with having KDE?
QuoteWould the procedure to install another desktop be install a base system, install login manager, install Cinnamon?
Assuming cinnamon is a fully self-sufficient desktop environment, then yes your approach should work. I personally haven't installed cinnamon so I can't say so with 100% confidence. But if it is a new installation, I guess there's no risk to try it. You can definitely start with nox and skip the gnome part of it.
What do you like about cinnamon -- what advantages do you see? Maybe someone else (me) should give it a spin.
Thanks for the reply and the welcome. KDE is my main environment. I don't like Cinnamon (or anything) better. I'm looking for a rolling KDE, which is why I'm here. I also want to run Cinnamon on a second computer but I want the same base system so I get used to doing things the same.
For me nothing compares to KDE, but I want a GTK environment to use GIMP and Inkscape on purely for looks and also for variety. I tried LMDE with Cinnamon and really liked several things. Operationally it is simple yet direct and standard. Appearance-wise, I was able to set it up to look beautiful to me. I also liked that it's based on modern GTK. Gnome I appreciate their direction but it's not for me.
You can install siduction-KDE, and then you can install gimp and inkscape. They will only pull in as much gtk dependencies as they require (which might be quite a few). That's what I do -- no problem. In your KDE systemsettings, you can twiddle the decorations and icons so the gtk packages don't look bad. I've been using the air-oxygen-color window decorations, with the air desktop theme for some time, and it's all good.
Also, you might want to install the gnome-icon-theme package, gtk2-engines, gtk2-engines-oxygen, and gtk2-engines-qtcurve and then twiddle those in your systemsettings, to complement your KDE theme.
Welcome onboard :-)
I don't know anything about cinnamon, butkde with gimp, inkscpae, iceweasel and other gtk stuff is no problem at all!
Hi,
welcome, too.
As you made me curious I tried to install cinnamon on nox.
All I get after login is an unresponsible plain blue background, no icons, no menu, no right or left klick works.
I could find a bugreport on ubuntu which recommends to install caribou to solve this, but with no success.
Installed packages on nox as base:
xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-video-intel xinit cinnamon lightdm (also tried gdm2 and gdm3) muffin caribou gnome-control-center gnome-session, all with dependencies...
So I guess either I'm missing something basically or the cinnamon package in sid does not work.
As I'm not used to gnome or it's descendants the first guess has my highest vote :)
Also I can agree with dibl and Lanzi: gimp works fine on kde. Don't know inkscape.
greets
ayla
Installed just fine here in vbox
screenshot
http://home.roadrunner.com/~piper_1/images/cinnamon.png
Did you start from nox? I was going to try it from a nox install. I wanted to see if I could get it without Gnome.
Last week I successfully got Cinnamon to work starting with Debian Testing with Gnome, I upgraded to unstable immediately, then a simple apt-get install cinnamon nemo (Debian unstable repository about a week ago). It worked great (until I broke it experimenting).
I have a siduction RazorQt VM, fully updated, and I installed cinnamon and nemo on it. Using the lightdm login manager, I logged into a cinnamon2D desktop, and it seems to work as expected. There's a problem with the screen size -- it comes up huge and it's not obvious whether it is a cinnamon or a vmware issue, but here's what I saw.
Hi,
QuoteI installed cinnamon and nemo on it.
As I thought: I miss something basic. After installing nemo my desktop is no longer plain blue, insteed I now have icons showing my filesystem and right klicking brings up a menu. :)
So I need to have a look were I get a control/menu bar from and ev'rything should work here also.
greets
ayla
Quote from: "vayu"Did you start from nox? I was going to try it from a nox install. I wanted to see if I could get it without Gnome.
Last week I successfully got Cinnamon to work starting with Debian Testing with Gnome, I upgraded to unstable immediately, then a simple apt-get install cinnamon nemo (Debian unstable repository about a week ago). It worked great (until I broke it experimenting).
No, kde
If i will have time I will do also some tests with cinnamon to see how it works.
From KDE. What happens when you share the same home with 2 different desktop environments? I would actually like to do that if I didn't think it would somehow be messy.
You choose from your login manager (probably kdm in your case) what you want to use. They can share your home just fine.
greetz
devil
Quote from: "vayu"From KDE. What happens when you share the same home with 2 different desktop environments? I would actually like to do that if I didn't think it would somehow be messy.
I am one "of those people" that don't share home with anything. :)
However, I do share firefox & thunderbird
I like a very "clean" environment, I do back my home up once a week.
Quote from: "piper"...
I am one "of those people" that don't share home with anything. :)
...
Can we assume that "home" in this case is configuration only? All *real* personal files are on (a) seperate partition(s) and maybe linked to folders in "home"?
No, I don't share anything in home, or on a seperate partition, nothing linked, new install, right from scratch, clean.
.thunderbird , .mozilla & pyfll thats it, thats how I like it :)
But your images, videos, music, docs, where do they live? You don't throw them away with any new install.
Quote from: "michaa7"But your images, videos, music, docs, where do they live? You don't throw them away with any new install.
images and docs go to either my FTP server or cloud,movies and music go to my mythtv server, all separate machines
Ok the post above was done on my phone at work so I had to be quick
If and when, I get more hard drive space michaa7, yes, a separate partition is the way I have done it normally, but really, never do I just "put" the "home" back after an install like I see so many people do ;)
So today I surrender on trying to install cinnamon on noX.
In betwenn I have a complete working gnome2 environment, panels and all but still when I'm choosing cinnamon insteed of gnome in DM there is no panel, bar or whatever it's called.
On a gnome test installation same cinnamon version works without any problem.
For just playing around a little with nox and a new DE I have wasted to much time in between anyway. :evil:
greets
ayla
Hi ayla,
also wenn ich dich richtig verstehe hast du die Cinnamon Installation, ausgehend von Nox, nicht funktionsfähig zum laufen gebracht. Ich bin bei dieser Variante auch gescheitert, weil ich es nicht hinbekommen habe die fehlenden Pakete (vermutlich ein GNOME-Paket) zu identifizieren die einen funktionsfähigen Desktop ergeben.
Ausgehend von einer ISO siduction-GMOME bzw. einer Debian Testing (ebenfalls GMOME) konnte ich problemlos einen funktionsfähigen Cinnamon Desktop installieren. Ein Vergleich der Paketlisten (siduction-Nox/siduction-GNOME) mit anschließender Installation von GNOME-Paketen bei der Nox-Installation brachte leider keinen Erfolg.
Ich vermute in SID fehlen den Cinnamon Pakten noch ein paar wichtige Dinge ;-)
-----EN-----
Hi Ayla,
so if I understand you correctly you have the Cinnamon installation, starting from Nox, not made to run functional. I'm in this variant also failed because I did not get it the missing packages (probably a GNOME package) to identify yield a functional desktop.
Starting from an ISO siduction GMOME or a Debian testing (also GMOME) I could easily install a working Cinnamon desktop. Unfortunately, a comparison of package lists (siduction-Nox/siduction-GNOME) with subsequent installation of GNOME packages was not successful at the Nox installation.
I suspect in the Cinnamon packages SID missing a few important things;-)
Hi,
I have promised that I will take a look about how to install cinnamon. I have started with nox.
Ayla, to work from nox please install also at least gnome-themes-standard.
Thank you.
Hi,
no I didn't get it to work. At my last try I installed every package named "gnome-..." which I get with dpkg --get-selections from the normal installed siduction-gnome-iso. Included gnome-themes-standard.
gnome2 was working fine then, gnome3, when startet from dm, was falling back to gnome2 -which it should, I hadn't installed all neccessary for gnome3-, but cinnamon still was missing its controlbar.
I have now set up noX new, installed a kde-standard then -which is working fine- and have tried to install cinnamon after. Same result as before -plain blue unresponsive background.
This seems not to depend on a missing gnome or kde package but I have no idea what basic package I miss here.
greets
ayla
EDIT: hmm... or are there just some settings missing? Something siduction-settings-gnome or -kde is giving but missing on siduction-settings-nox or something like this?
I'm out of time now, but I will try to have a look in this direction later.
@bluelupo: I don't think cinnamon in sid is missing something, it works fine on my installation from gnome iso.
I had to take back "working fine with kde", shot my main installation by trying again... :cry:
I agree.
Irt seems that I have missed something.
I guess that should be installed also gnome themes.
I will test more and I will tell you.
Thank you.
I had a first glimpse of success with installing on top of noX the following:apt-get install xorg xserver-xorg-core xserver-common xinit xauth lightdm cinnamon cinnamon-common gnome-themes-standard gnome-icon-theme x-window-manager desktop-base nautilus
First reboot takes some time and I am not sure if that really is lightdm where I chose Cinnamon (first pic), and got a cinnamon desktop (firestarter wallpaper chosen manually afterwards):
(http://www10.pic-upload.de/thumb/27.05.13/1o47yis9okj7.jpg) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-19490809/cinn1.jpg.html) (http://www10.pic-upload.de/thumb/27.05.13/4p94dfnl9bkx.jpg) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-19490817/cinn2.jpg.html)
Yes, you got it, thanks for sharing.
QuoteSystem: Host: nox386box Kernel: 3.9-4.towo-siduction-686 i686 (32 bit, gcc: 4.7.3)
Desktop: Cinnamon 1.7.4 Distro: siduction 13.1.0 Firestarter - nox - (201305202158)
Cinnamon is running.
:)
Guess the missing one here was desktop-base.
For all interrested I made a list of all installed packages for comparing:
http://paste.siduction.org/20130527161509
hmm... this first pic has to be lightdm, I have the same one and lightdm is the only installed DM here.
greets
ayla
Interesting
It's running also for me but without desktop-base.
In fact I have tried to build an iso with cinnamon and it seems that's usable.
Quote from: "convbsd"Interesting
It's running also for me but without desktop-base.
hmm! So it's not desktop-base...
A pity I don't have kept the list of my former installs, so I can't compare.
I installed desktop-base only because it was suggested, but think it is not necessary for cinnamon but only provides some basic grub graphics and such.
Could the necessary package perhaps be nautilus, came across some other forums where they said you need it to provide desktop-icons and so on.
When I have access to that virtual machine again (tomorrow@work), I'll try again.
Hallo zusammen,
hier ist mein Paketliste eines funktionierenden Cinnamon-Desktop aufbauend auf eine Nox-Installation.
Ich habe folgende Pakete händisch nachinstalliert:
xserver-xorg
cinnamon
gnome-icon-theme
gnome-control-center
gnome-terminal
gdm3
nautilus
xauth
xinit
Die Runlevel sind allerdings noch nicht so wie bei einem Standard-siduction-Desktop, d.h. Runlevel 3 startet nicht in die Konsole sondern ebenfalls den Xserver.
Paketliste: http://paste.siduction.org/20130528160329
-----EN-----
Hi there,
here is my list of a package functioning Cinnamon desktop is based on a Nox installation.
I have reinstalled the following packages manually:
xserver-xorg
cinnamon
gnome-icon-theme
gnome-control-center
gnome-terminal
gdm3
nautilus
xauth
xinit
However, the runlevels are not yet as with a standard siduction desktop, ie Will not start in runlevel 3 console but also the Xserver.
Package list: http://paste.siduction.org/20130528160329
Hi bluelupo
I'm glad you found the solution.
One question: How *light* is cinnamon?
In a range from lightweight to heavyweight, where would you sort cinnamon?
fluxbox/openbox - lxde - xfce4 - gnome2/3 - kde
(I am *not* claiming this range is really the correct order, but it represents my impression)
somewhere around xfce
Quote from: "bluelupo"...
However, the runlevels are not yet as with a standard siduction desktop, ie Will not start in runlevel 3 console but also the Xserver....
I found that noX configuration of runlevels differs from the +X flavours of siduction, meaning runlevel 3 is set to default and that lead to (in my case) lightdm after installation started in runlevel 3 also.
I am not sure if this is the right way to go, but I did the following: Editing
/etc/inittab from
#The default runlevel.
id:3:initdefault:to
id:5:initdefault:and in directory
/etc/rc3.dmv S19lightdm K19lightdm
update-rc.d lightdm defaultsNow system boots up in runlevel 3 (f) with X (lightdm, cinnamon) unless I enter a "3" at grub kernel-commandline.
Edit: ^^ of course I mean system boots default in runlevel
5, thx vayu.
Quote from: "der_bud"
Now system boots up in runlevel 3 with X (lightdm, cinnamon) unless I enter a "3" at grub kernel-commandline.
I've been wanting to get a siduction Cinnamon install that doesn't include Gnome. I'm happy to see this progress. I'm unclear about the runlevels. What happens if you leave the runlevels the way nox sets them? What does the change shown here do? I thought runlevel 3 was the special level when we leave X to do dist-upgrade. Why do you want to be in runlevel 3 for the DM?
Thx vayu, I had a typo. You are totally right that runlevel 3 is in siduction the one without X and systems boot to runlevel 5 with X.
Besides noX, that one boots per default to runlevel 3, which is its purpose. When you now install some DM on top of noX (while being in 3), it then boots to RL3 with X, so my post was about how to change noX to behave like other siductions: take the DM out of RL3 and set RL2 as default.
And as that post above came from tests in a vm that no longer exists, I suppose I confused as well runlevels 2 and 5, 'cause in my siduction-KDE inittab says for default runlevel id:5:initdefault: :wink: