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Offline devil

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Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #15 on: 2012/04/29, 10:08:40 »
Why would it?

greetz
devil

Offline vilde

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Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #16 on: 2012/04/29, 11:13:03 »
Quote from: "devil"
Why would it?

greetz
devil
Because it feels a little sensitive this language thing.

To make things clear, I have nothing against Germans and the German language I just want this distribution with the forum be used by as many as possible.

You must have thought in an international (English) way when you created the website from the beginning, You have a English start site, with English menus, it would maybe be good to follow that logic by showing the English forum text first on the forum site also.

Offline titan

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RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #17 on: 2012/04/29, 12:00:56 »
I think the Siduction devs need to decide where they want their distro to go.For me there is no difference technically between Siduction and Aptosid except the Aptosid forum is better being in English. I don't see any examples of the new freedom of speech being expressed in this forum. At the moment Siduction is a German distro with most of the forum traffic in German and will not attract new international users until it is in English. When Siduction first appeared I though great it would be like Kanotix or early sidux with an active forum but is more like current Aptosid but mostly in German, how will that attract new users. I will continue using both but siduction is missing an opportunity to develop by using German as it's primary forum language.

Offline clubex

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RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #18 on: 2012/04/29, 12:43:56 »
Like titan I'm staying with siduction because it has the possibility of having a community in which I could enjoy being a member. aptosid is not a place I wish to return to. Saying that I desperately hope that the new website comes along quickly and has the ability to attract a larger English audience. Without a larger English representation in the siduction community I will remain feeling isolated and merely an onlooker in an largely uncaring community. Perhaps uncaring is the incorrect word but I can't express it any better at the moment.

I have issue with the view that devil aptosid is virtually dead. If you compare the number of users online at any one time you'll find that aptosid has way more users online. I just had a quick look and aptosid had 57 users online in comparison with siduction's 12. And aptosid bears favourably with forums.debian.net which had 84 users online. People may not be posting to aptosid (perhaps explained by their bad reputation?) but they're still visiting the site in reasonable numbers.

Offline ayla

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Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #19 on: 2012/04/29, 14:46:02 »
Quote from: "vilde"
Quote from: "devil"
Why would it?

greetz
devil
Because it feels a little sensitive this language thing.


Hi,

I dont care whether the one or the other language is set on top because I try to follow both sections. I can see the sense of placing english on top to attract more international users.

Also holgerw's suggestion of posting upgrade warnings in both languages is a very good idea and I would suggest to do it the way it was done in sidux times -upgrade warnings in a multilingual place on top.

For the remaining parts a few helpers who translate and maybe sum up what they think relevant would be nice.

greets
ayla
Kernel: 4.18.11-towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64
Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.13.5
(mostly) kept current siduction "18.3.0 Patience"
HP EliteBook 8570p; MoBo: HP model: 17A7 v: KBC Version 42.35
Dual core  i5-3320M (-MT-MCP-)
Intel 3. Gen Graphics (Ivybridge) Driver:i915/ intel
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Offline michaaa62

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Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #20 on: 2012/04/29, 15:14:22 »
Quote
I just had a quick look and aptosid had 57 users online in comparison with siduction's 12
devil was talking about aptosid.de. There is not much life anymore there, even the thread about it http://www.aptosidusers.de/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1441 does not have many posts.

While i was opposing vilde's initial thought about the language used here, because i was optimistic about the activity in the international section. I now see the interesting discussions, like the razorqt thread http://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=2122 in the experimental section, for the direction siduction is heading to, are all in german, and some community members are shut off :oops: .

We should try to change that!
« Last Edit: 2013/11/10, 04:19:54 by melmarker »

holgerw

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I feel outside
« Reply #21 on: 2012/04/29, 16:06:41 »
Hi @michaaa62,

I see the situation, which could be made better. But what would you suggest? And another question. What is with possible new users with other languages like french, who can't speak english? And french language is also an international language.

I've start the razorqt thread and thanks for compliment, that this is an important one.

And when an english speaking member wants to start a thread about razorqt, she or he can do it in english area.

I've suggest a bilingual area aubout update warnings to make the situation here better but again: I don't like to educate or to be educated to use only langtuage x for a free software community.

Kind regards,
  Holger

Offline titan

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I feel outside
« Reply #22 on: 2012/04/29, 18:38:03 »
Quote from: "holgerw"


 What is with possible new users with other languages like french, who can't speak english? And french language is also an international language.

  Holger


If you primarily want a German Forum, that is fine it is your distro but don't expect many new users to join. English is the language of the internet and the primary second language for most other European,Indian, African, South American, Chinese etc. What is there on Siduction to attract even long term Kanotix , sidux, Aptosid users. Having a forum where most of the interesting dev discussion is in German alienates the non German speakers as they are excluded from the discussion.I though Siduction was about community but it seems that is only completely true if you speak German.

Offline clubex

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I feel outside
« Reply #23 on: 2012/04/29, 19:08:14 »
+1

Offline dibl

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I feel outside
« Reply #24 on: 2012/04/29, 20:47:30 »
I think a huge separation between the German and English forums (like separate sites) is NOT the way to go.  There are too many people who can manage in both languages (at least reading), and information will be missed by everyone who would like to check both fora.

Reality = the dev team are mostly German.  Reality = they will be most comfortable with discussions in German.  Let them be comfortable -- there is no reason to hide the German forum from English speakers.

However, titan is correct about the majority language for Internet conversations -- it is indeed English. So siduction must have a living English forum, and it must be attractive, especially for folks who are not confident of their ability with Linux, much less their ability with English.  Anyone who has caught a "RTFM" between the eyes knows not to ask any more questions at that place.

I would even go so far as to suggest a "Noob Corner" forum, for those who know they don't know. While Debian Sid is not a recommended branch for noobs, this siduction distro is a very reasonable choice for someone bored with Ubuntu and ready to learn more, IMHO.  We should welcome such users, and let them know it's OK to ask a question that might seem noobish.  I would personally be willing to help with their issues, to the limits of my limited ability.

/stump speech
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Offline axel668

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RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #25 on: 2012/04/29, 21:22:09 »
You certainly can't expect German users (who currently seem to be the majority in the Siduction community) to lead all their discussions in English. There is an English part of the forum, and it's up to you, the non- German users to fill it with content.

But I agree that the different language sections could be structured a little better to make it easier to find the (numerous) English content
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." - Mitch Ratcliffe

Offline vilde

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RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #26 on: 2012/04/29, 21:54:50 »
Quote

You certainly can't expect German users (who currently seem to be the majority in the Siduction community) to lead all their discussions in English.
Yes, you can expect a international, world wide wannabe distributions main forum language to be in English.

It will always be a majority of German users in a German forum. And a distribution with the main discussion in German will remain a distribution with most German users, who in all future can claim that because we are mostly German users we will keep the main forum in German because we are mostly Germans here.......
Quote

There is an English part of the forum, and it's up to you, the non- German users to fill it with content.
What shall we do there if the main discussions are in German? Play games, send each other greetings or talk about the weather?

Offline ayla

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Re: RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #27 on: 2012/04/30, 03:23:19 »
Quote from: "vilde"
What shall we do there if the main discussions are in German? Play games, send each other greetings or talk about the weather?


What the germans also do. Ask the questions and discuss the matters of your interest. The devs and the germans who are able to will join in.  
 The team meetings are hold in english and the logs can be found at chili.siduction.org, so there is more a problem for only german users. :wink:

Greets
ayla
Kernel: 4.18.11-towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64
Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.13.5
(mostly) kept current siduction "18.3.0 Patience"
HP EliteBook 8570p; MoBo: HP model: 17A7 v: KBC Version 42.35
Dual core  i5-3320M (-MT-MCP-)
Intel 3. Gen Graphics (Ivybridge) Driver:i915/ intel
 Wifi Intel Centrino N6205

Offline devil

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RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #28 on: 2012/04/30, 08:27:52 »
We have in no way planned to have a german distro or to have prominent discussions in german. you can see that for example if you look at the core-meeting logs or our blog.The meetings are all in english, even though not all members of core team were good with that decision.

On the new forum (yeah, I know, it's not ready yet) it will be easier and no language will be prominent to another one. Until then, as soon as I have time, I will check, how hard it is to move EN up and above DE forums.

greetz
devil

Offline ralul

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RE: Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #29 on: 2012/04/30, 12:15:49 »
devil, can you give some more details status update of the new forum software somewhere, and what is missing: art, icons? Where we could help ...
experiencing siduction runs better than my gentoo makes me know I know nothing