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Offline vilde

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I feel outside
« on: 2012/04/28, 11:14:34 »
It's quite dead here on the English part of the forum and as I wrote before in another thread the interesting discussions will be on the German forum, for example http://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=2101 would have been nice to be able to follow.

And don't tell me that it's possible to follow with auto-translation, it will be like discussing with a 1,5 year old child, that’s maybe working for a specific technical problem but not in a common discussion.

It's better to separate the German forum from the English so we not German speaking don't have to see the things we can't join.
« Last Edit: 2013/11/10, 04:44:16 by melmarker »

Offline dibl

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #1 on: 2012/04/28, 13:51:16 »
Hi vilde -- yes it's very quiet here. I have not seen any problem on my siduction systems for weeks.  It must be the same for other users, I guess.  Sid must be in pretty good shape these days.  I read the German side with chromium's translator, and they are not discussing any serious problems.
Asus ROG STRIX X299-E, Core i7-7740X, Nvidia GTX-1060, dual monitors, SSD 860 EVO, 2@WD1003FZEX in BTRFS

Offline vilde

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #2 on: 2012/04/28, 16:51:49 »
I'm not afraid that I will miss anything important, but I miss the fun of a lively forum. Probably I have to accept this, there are maybe not so many people here? I mean, now there are two places, aptosid and siduction, even if some are active on both forum it will be less people on each forum.

I have two machines with siduction and two with aptosid here and then two others I manage for others with aptosid, probably I will change some more of them to siduction but I will wait for next release then. But for the moment I have an eye on both forums now and then.

Offline DeepDayze

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #3 on: 2012/04/28, 17:43:22 »
It's maybe because the debian team's been doing a great job reacting to bug reports and getting things ready for the upcoming Wheezy freeze.

Offline dibl

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I feel outside
« Reply #4 on: 2012/04/28, 17:53:25 »
My desktop system is one built at the end of 2010 -- giant i7-950 rig.  I originally installed aptosid Ἡμέρα on it, then later I "cross-graded" it to siduction.  So it still has infobash:

Code: [Select]
Host/Kernel/OS  "imerabox" running Linux 3.3-4.towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2011-02 Ἡμέρα - kde-lite - (201107131633) ]
CPU Info        8x Intel Core i7 950 @ 8192 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm vmx ) clocked at [ 4216.926 MHz ]
Videocard       NVIDIA GF100 [GeForce GTX 480]  X.Org 1.11.4  [ 1920x1200@50.0hz ]
Network cards   Marvell 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller, at port: d800
Processes 286 | Uptime 2:14 | Memory 1436.3/5966.5MB | HDD OCZ-REVODRIVE,OCZ-REVODRIVE,KINGSTON SS100S2,WDC WD1002FAEX-0,WDC WD1002FAEX-0 Size 2136GB (3%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce GTX 480/PCIe/SSE2 | GLX Version 4.2.0 NVIDIA 295.40 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.37


I also have a Dell E6500 and Toshiba NB205 netbook and they both have a native siduction OS.
Asus ROG STRIX X299-E, Core i7-7740X, Nvidia GTX-1060, dual monitors, SSD 860 EVO, 2@WD1003FZEX in BTRFS

Offline ralul

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #5 on: 2012/04/28, 17:57:21 »
What about siduction official forums as dual language?
experiencing siduction runs better than my gentoo makes me know I know nothing

Offline dibl

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #6 on: 2012/04/28, 18:47:42 »
Most simple:

Use only one "Upgrade Warnings" -- the warning is usually only one or two sentences, so write the warning in both English and German.  If a person cannot speak one of these languages, then use the free translator here and get the other version to paste in.  Of course the translation is not perfect, but here we are not linquists anyway, right?  I think we can understand the technical terminology when it is translated.

All other forums can be duplicates -- one for German, one for English.

Just my $0.02.  :)
Asus ROG STRIX X299-E, Core i7-7740X, Nvidia GTX-1060, dual monitors, SSD 860 EVO, 2@WD1003FZEX in BTRFS

Offline Lanzi

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #7 on: 2012/04/28, 20:56:06 »
I was thinking the same for the germ,an forum, that there has't been a lot of new topics the last weeks. :-)

Every dist-updagrde runs smoothly. So no need to ask for me.
Lets hope it stays for a while like this...
:-)

Offline vilde

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #8 on: 2012/04/28, 23:50:42 »
Of cause this forum is more quiet when everything is working smooth and nice. It is because there are a lot of people out there doing a fantastic work.

Probably I'm a little nostalgic, I remember the first time of sidux, the forum was full of life, a lot of discussions, some serious some was more fun and social. It was nearly always interesting to have a look at the forum. But time changes, people come and go, things get smooth and working and so on.

Still there are for me no other distributions that come near the tight, fast, clear and very good working os than siduction and aptosid. I mention both because I have not really seen any significant differences, the most difference so far is the look, the themes but time will show that also.

Offline Lanzi

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #9 on: 2012/04/28, 23:59:53 »
Oh, don't worry. We are close to the freeze... then in hopefully less than 8 Month, when the freeze is over, the rought times will beginn.
It will be my fourth freeze... and it was alswas quite before, and very hasty (thanks treebeard for the word ;-) ) afterwards!

Offline ralul

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #10 on: 2012/04/29, 00:20:19 »
@dibl, that is what I meant using the term "dual language"
But I would also include the other "official" forums news and bugs though.

@vilde, this is my sociology of forum life:
If you have some discurs and two or more parties of people having deep missions to persuade the "other" side, there will be heavy fighting and every single item will be a exploited to be a case!
Since the division we have lost some of those "deep" and "fundamental" issues:
- multimedia
- additional tools (not loved but not fighted any more)
- proprietary drivers (nvidia)
- use of aptitude (not loved but not fighted)
- naming and telling of other distributions
- doing things not the right way (nvidia-run)
Each of which gave an additional heated thread by mentioning just a little word ....
experiencing siduction runs better than my gentoo makes me know I know nothing

Offline clubex

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RE: I feel outside
« Reply #11 on: 2012/04/29, 02:29:27 »
I joined not long after the first siduction final was available for download and I'm sorry to have to say I don't ever remember the English section ever being anything but a very quiet backwater. In fact I can't remember any significant technical questions. Also look at the 4 pages of Upgrade Warnings in the German sextion as opposed to the single page in the English section

In comparison the German section is a smoothly flowing river.

Having moved from aptosid.com this lack of interest in the English section has been a source of disappointment to me. aptosid.com, although sometimes fractious, was always lively. It was somewhere where I and other English speakers could join in and express our opinions and experiences and perhaps even offer help to others. From day one this has been missing from siduction and there is nothing to suggest this will be any different in the future. I had hoped for a sense of community but at present it seems absent for me as an English speaker. I think the OP feels the same way.

Another and probably larger disappointment for me is the rate of new registrations is virtually stagnant. Like all of us I want to see the continued use and growth of siduction but it doesn't appear to be happening. It seems to me that as the German section has a substantially larger contribution/viewer base than does the English section. Given the ratio of English speakers to German speakers in the world I have to put this down to the website design failing to attract English speakers.

IMHO putting the German section first is not a good idea. Acquiring a larger registration base can only be achieved by increasing the exposure to English speakers. This isn't done by presenting the first page of the forums in a language the majority of the world doesn't understand. Perhaps putting the English section first might attract more registrations. I used to run a village community website and it was significant that if you didn't put the important stuff on the front page and link it to, say the pigeon racing page, people rarely went to the racing page to check what was happening.

What seems to bear this out is the number of viewers of the German section is much larger than that of the English section.One would think it would be the opposite given the number of English speakers out there. But it isn't.

Perhaps the website could be re-designed to offer either:

(a) An entirely English only website. Most distributions get away with this option but personally I don't think it is appropriate given siduction's historical origins and developer base. Nor would it suit the present make up of contributors/viewers. It might attract some more English speakers but conversely it might drive some German speakers away.

(b) Placing the English and German sections on different websites. This  is probably the best option if a brief examination of aptosid is anything to go by. aptosid.de (German speaking audience) does not get as many contributors and viewers as aptosid.com (English speaking audience) yet together they have a large number of registrations. This arrangement appears to be more representative of the real world and may gain English speakers while retaining it's present German speakers.

My apologies if this is a bit long and rambling. I could have said more but I should have been asleep a long time ago.

holgerw

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I feel outside
« Reply #12 on: 2012/04/29, 07:37:49 »
Hello,

hmm, a difficult situation, because in case of siduction the community of siduction users forum is bundled with the developers and most of developers comes from germany, and the community is grown with the fork siduction

With pure debian the situation is very easy: We've the debian developers on the one side on the other side we've enlish debian forum, german debian forum and perhaps some more forums in other languages.

I think one point should be clear: All people here in forum are the user community of siduction and while discussing here problems about the chosen languages the part of community, who can't speak german and who prefers the english languages could discuss interesting stuff in english :-)

Okay, the area of update warnings is special and very important for users of a rolling release, and I'll ask all people trying to post and adding comments there in both languages.

But to eliminate german language here or to educate people here to use language x and not language a, sorry this is not acceptable.

Kind regards,
  Holger

Offline devil

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I feel outside
« Reply #13 on: 2012/04/29, 09:21:57 »
Quote

(b) Placing the English and German sections on different websites. This is probably the best option if a brief examination of aptosid is anything to go by. aptosid.de (German speaking audience) does not get as many contributors and viewers as aptosid.com (English speaking audience) yet together they have a large number of registrations. This arrangement appears to be more representative of the real world and may gain English speakers while retaining it's present German speakers.

I understand the frustration about not having a functioning EN forum yet. But splitting up on different pages is not the way we want to go. On the new website, which is still in the works :(  the differentiaton will be easier.

Two websites: aptosid.de was only done, because the 'renitent' german users needed a home due to the ongoing quarrels on aptosid.com. Since siduction took of, aptosid.de is dead in the water.

The number of registrations on aptosid.com does imho not represent the real situation. As you can see, even aptosid.com is quite quiet these days.

I have no solution to this other that to build a stronger international userbase. One step to do that is a more attractive forum for them. Users of the english part of the forum can help with that.

greetz
devil

Offline vilde

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Re: RE: I feel outside
« Reply #14 on: 2012/04/29, 09:57:52 »
Quote from: "clubex"
IMHO putting the German section first is not a good idea. Acquiring a larger registration base can only be achieved by increasing the exposure to English speakers. This isn't done by presenting the first page of the forums in a language the majority of the world doesn't understand. Perhaps putting the English section first might attract more registrations. I used to run a village community website and it was significant that if you didn't put the important stuff on the front page and link it to, say the pigeon racing page, people rarely went to the racing page to check what was happening.
I think this is important. There is a common knowledge for example around journalists that a big majority of people just read the headlines or maybe the first lines of text. Probably there is similarity to internet users, maybe a lot of new visitors of this forum never even realize that there are a English forum?

When surfing the Internet you sort of expect a English text. After a English headline on a English home site and then find a German language when you get to the forum, I believe that non German reading visitors leave then.  And as clubex wrote, there are a lot more English speaking people out there than Enlish. To put the German forum after the English would that feel bad for you German speakers?