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Offline DeepDayze

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Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #30 on: 2013/06/03, 01:38:17 »
Quote from: "dibl"
Quote from: "devil"
Found that by default the journal goes volatile to /run/log. You need to add a line to /etc/systemd/systemd-journald.conf like
Code: [Select]
Storage=persistent to make it go to /var/log/journal.


That works correctly on my desktop system.  On a laptop and a netbook, it does not move the journal -- I still find it at /run/log/journal.  Strange ...


Then you might need to set that config option BEFORE switching over to systemd so that on the first start of systemd it should then create the journal in the proper place already

Offline dibl

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #31 on: 2013/06/03, 14:11:14 »
Quote from: "dibl"


EDIT:  Question:  Since init 3 is no longer effective on a systemd installation, what is the recommended method to stop the xserver before dist-upgrade?  I did this:

Code: [Select]
# service lightdm stop && exit

Is that sufficient?


Following up on this question, I believe the answer is "NO".

My reading of these FAQs (thanks piper), plus a little experimentation, leads me to think that the X server shutdown is like this, at the tty console:

Code: [Select]
# systemctl isolate multi-user.target
# service kdm stop


(or lightdm, gdm, slim, etc.)

and to restart X:

Code: [Select]
# systemctl isolate graphical.target && exit
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Offline der_bud

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #32 on: 2013/06/03, 14:41:17 »
I found from Debian Wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Debugging_systemd) that enabling LogTarget=syslog-or-kmsg in /etc/systemd/system.conf gives me the /var/log/syslog in addition to the one viewable with systemd-journalctl.
Du lachst? Wieso lachst du? Das ist doch oft so, Leute lachen erst und dann sind sie tot.

Offline DeepDayze

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #33 on: 2013/06/03, 16:23:53 »
Quote from: "der_bud"
I found from Debian Wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Debugging_systemd) that enabling LogTarget=syslog-or-kmsg in /etc/systemd/system.conf gives me the /var/log/syslog in addition to the one viewable with systemd-journalctl.


Nice tip, so it must be possible to have a readable syslog along with the binary journal. That might be a good tip also for debugging to turn on regular syslog alongside systemd to make it easier to get any errors to document

Offline dibl

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #34 on: 2013/06/04, 00:18:18 »
Quote from: "der_bud"
I found from Debian Wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Debugging_systemd) that enabling LogTarget=syslog-or-kmsg in /etc/systemd/system.conf gives me the /var/log/syslog in addition to the one viewable with systemd-journalctl.


I set this on my laptop, and tested.  I see it does make a /var/log/syslog file for each booted session, but it is not persistent -- a new log is started at each new boot.

Since a laptop or a netbook is not normally going to accumulate a lot of errors, without the user knowing something is wrong, it is not important (at least to me), to go back to prior booted sessions and look for errors on the laptop, like it might be on the desktop.  But I would think it should be possible to set the log as persistent, same as the desktop, which is working correctly with a systemd log at /var/log/journal.
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Offline devil

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #35 on: 2013/06/04, 00:52:13 »
Why is systemd-journalctl not enough to view the logs?

Oh, and btw.: last nights core-meeting brought the decision to go for systemd (and secure-boot) for one of the next releases. I filed this bug today:
http://chili.siduction.org/issues/1246

greetz
devil

Offline dibl

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #36 on: 2013/06/04, 02:34:20 »
Good that siduction will adopt systemd, IMHO.

HOWEVER, the issue of a persistent journal is not resolved.  For my fourth system, a laptop, I followed your process exactly.  The edit to /etc/systemd/systemd-journald.conf was made before rebooting.  Nevertheless, again I have only the /run/log/journal/logfile as a non-persistent log.

Possibly the newer version will fix this bug, but there is something about the log location that is not controllable in ver. 44.11.

Here is the latest hardware:

Code: [Select]
System:    Host: latitude-D620 Kernel: 3.9-4.towo-siduction-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.7.3)
           Desktop: KDE 4.10.3 (Qt 4.8.4) Distro: siduction 12.1.1 Desperado Reloaded - kde - (201206241901)
Machine:   System: Dell product: Latitude D620 serial: 587F1D1
           Mobo: Dell model: 0KX350 serial: .587F1D1.CN1296175N2438. Bios: Dell version: A10 date: 05/16/2008
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core2 CPU T7200 (-MCP-) cache: 4096 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 7988.68
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1000.00 MHz 2: 1000.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA G72M [Quadro NVS 110M/GeForce Go 7300] bus-ID: 01:00.0
           X.org: 1.12.4 driver: nvidia tty size: 73x39 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network:   Card-1: Broadcom NetXtreme BCM5752 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express driver: tg3 ver: 3.130 bus-ID: 09:00.0
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:18:8b:d6:2c:8f
           Card-2: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection driver: iwl3945 ver: in-tree:s bus-ID: 0c:00.0
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:1b:77:37:e7:b5
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 100.0GB (5.5% used) 1: model: Hitachi_HTS72101
Info:      Processes: 152 Uptime: 37 min Memory: 762.3/3267.3MB Runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.7.3
           Client: Shell (bash 4.2.45) inxi: 1.9.7
Asus ROG STRIX X299-E, Core i7-7740X, Nvidia GTX-1060, dual monitors, SSD 860 EVO, 2@WD1003FZEX in BTRFS

Offline DeepDayze

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #37 on: 2013/06/04, 02:46:48 »
Quote from: "dibl"
Good that siduction will adopt systemd, IMHO.

HOWEVER, the issue of a persistent journal is not resolved.  For my fourth system, a laptop, I followed your process exactly.  The edit to /etc/systemd/systemd-journald.conf was made before rebooting.  Nevertheless, again I have only the /run/log/journal/logfile as a non-persistent log.

Possibly the newer version will fix this bug, but there is something about the log location that is not controllable in ver. 44.11.

Here is the latest hardware:

Code: [Select]
System:    Host: latitude-D620 Kernel: 3.9-4.towo-siduction-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.7.3)
           Desktop: KDE 4.10.3 (Qt 4.8.4) Distro: siduction 12.1.1 Desperado Reloaded - kde - (201206241901)
Machine:   System: Dell product: Latitude D620 serial: 587F1D1
           Mobo: Dell model: 0KX350 serial: .587F1D1.CN1296175N2438. Bios: Dell version: A10 date: 05/16/2008
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core2 CPU T7200 (-MCP-) cache: 4096 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 7988.68
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1000.00 MHz 2: 1000.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA G72M [Quadro NVS 110M/GeForce Go 7300] bus-ID: 01:00.0
           X.org: 1.12.4 driver: nvidia tty size: 73x39 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network:   Card-1: Broadcom NetXtreme BCM5752 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express driver: tg3 ver: 3.130 bus-ID: 09:00.0
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:18:8b:d6:2c:8f
           Card-2: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection driver: iwl3945 ver: in-tree:s bus-ID: 0c:00.0
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:1b:77:37:e7:b5
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 100.0GB (5.5% used) 1: model: Hitachi_HTS72101
Info:      Processes: 152 Uptime: 37 min Memory: 762.3/3267.3MB Runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.7.3
           Client: Shell (bash 4.2.45) inxi: 1.9.7


Why not file a bug report documenting your findings so that the systemd maintainers can hopefully find and fix that bug or provide clarification on how to properly configure persistent logging for systemd.

Offline dibl

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #38 on: 2013/06/04, 04:27:46 »
Quote from: "DeepDayze"


Why not file a bug report documenting your findings...


Well, I'm sitting here playing with ver. 44, and devil's info says ver. 214 will soon be coming into sid.  So I want to see how the new version works before I start yelling about bugs. But if it's not fixed, I will file a bug.
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Offline DeepDayze

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #39 on: 2013/06/04, 04:42:34 »
Quote from: "dibl"
Quote from: "DeepDayze"


Why not file a bug report documenting your findings...


Well, I'm sitting here playing with ver. 44, and devil's info says ver. 214 will soon be coming into sid.  So I want to see how the new version works before I start yelling about bugs. But if it's not fixed, I will file a bug.


Hope the new version fixes the issues you encountered and if not then yell about bugs :)

Offline devil

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #40 on: 2013/06/04, 08:22:14 »
Well, mkdir -p /var/log/journal does help in this case. And 44 is 14 months old, so there will be a ton of improvements. Documentations is already now very good, but takes time to read and grasp the new concepts.

greetz
devil

Offline ralul

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #41 on: 2013/06/04, 12:32:56 »
Quote from: "devil"
And (systemd-)44 is 14 months old, so there will be a ton of improvements.

The best for siduction was to have a Debian maintainer interested in systemd, who seeks a better experimental repo with real users and comes to siduction: Like Santa with his Kde interest!

At siduction there is no need to keep all archs in sync. To build here it should be easy enough. At Gentoo I hear the rumour of upstream systemd following RedHat special interests. But I hope these specials are margin: easy to adapt some single configs to Debian needs.
Quote
Documentations is already now very good, but takes time to read and grasp the new concepts.

If you don't want other than the default, then systemd just runs without need to read documentation ...

If some unit file would be missing, it will be easy to find it already at Arch or Fedora or Gentoo. Also writing yourself a unit isn't that a difficulty.

The recommendation I give is to not try Systemd with sysvinit-compatibility. It might work, but it is not needed and it obscures all of otherwise clean and transparent Systemd experience. And all I know is Debian Maintainers want to include every compatibility layer possible. Which is reasonable for the whole lot of Debian sponsors: Universities and other akademical institutes.

@agaida, what do you think of Systemd with experience of Arch distribuiton?
experiencing siduction runs better than my gentoo makes me know I know nothing

Offline bluelupo

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #42 on: 2013/06/04, 13:10:09 »
Hi devil,
do you have a link from a useful documentation (like in German) of systemd or journald? I have since found anything yet comprehensive.

Offline dibl

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #43 on: 2013/06/04, 15:37:49 »
Today I found a PEBKAC error was causing part of my issues -- on one laptop and the netbook which have SSDs, I had previously mounted /var/log on a tmpfs, so of course it was not possible for anything to be persistent including the systemd journal. (headslap here)  By changing that setup, and then making the /var/log/journal directory, and the next item below, they're working correctly.

Then make the directory for /var/log/journal as devil says, and after reboot it is working correctly on the Dell laptop I posted above and my other computers.  With these two things corrected, it looks like I can set the journal to be persistent at /var/log/journal on all my systems, so that's a closed issue.

HOWEVER, I believe we still need to develop correct guidance for taking the system to the level formerly known as "init 3" (no X server running) for d-u.  Today I discovered that when you use:

Code: [Select]
systemctl isolate multiuser.target it also kills the ssh service, so that is no good for remote administration. I'll have to wait for one more knowledgeable to figure out a correct procedure for d-u on a systemd system.
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Offline michaa7

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Survey on systemd Who uses it?
« Reply #44 on: 2013/06/04, 16:53:15 »
There
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#How_do_I_change_the_runlevel.3F
is an alternative way to got to RL 3:
Code: [Select]
systemctl isolate runlevel3.target

Maybe (not tested by michaa7) this allows for multiuser including sshd without X? And/or it may depend on how RL3 (=runlevel3.target) is configured (RH vs. Debian vs. siduction)
Ok, you can't code, but you still might be able to write a bug report for Debian's sake