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Offline michaa7

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systemd, an opinion on LKML
« on: 2014/08/12, 22:45:37 »
I know, systemd is being embraced by the siduction team. Nonetheless this opposing view is worth reading.

I admit like it.
Ok, you can't code, but you still might be able to write a bug report for Debian's sake

Offline GoinEasy9

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Re: systemd, an opinion on LKML
« Reply #1 on: 2014/08/13, 05:56:40 »
It's a very interesting rant, isn't it.  There's a similar discussion going on, on the openSUSE Factory mailing list:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2014-08/msg00073.html
It's a very long thread.  Linda Walsh makes some interesting posts, very much like the LKML poster.  There's also a lot of venom, going both ways.  A lot of the systemd threads wind up that way.  Myself, I have mixed feelings with the way it's going, and I'm not experienced enough with init to say which side is right.  I see good points on either side.
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Offline musca

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Re: systemd, an opinion on LKML
« Reply #2 on: 2014/08/13, 11:02:55 »
Hello michaa7,

Linux people like to be different and they like to have choice.
Recently a lot of developers have choosen systemd.
You don't have to use their products as you can choose an alternative that fits your needs.
That is the whole story.

Did you ever notice a systemd fanboy entering random forums or mailinglists with glorifying offtopic postings?

In fact i have read a lot of postings against systemd and i'm sick of their low quality arguments, the lies about systemd and the rude language. But i took time to read your link. I've read it and i must say: It's yet another boring rant. Please don't waste my time.

Ubuntus brotherhood has developed upstart, even Redhat Enterprise Linux 6.0 has adopted it - and upstart failed.
In a reaction to Canonicals unfree contributors license RedHat has started an opensource project and now people have choice.
Debian developers now can contribute patches under a free license. This freedom makes systemd superior.

free greetings
musca
„Es irrt der Mensch, solang er strebt.“  (Goethe, Faust)

Offline ralul

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Re: systemd, an opinion on LKML
« Reply #3 on: 2014/08/14, 00:34:12 »
I know, systemd is being embraced by the siduction team. Nonetheless this opposing view is worth reading.
More interesting these answers:
A) about Debian perspective: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/13/235
B) Alpinelinux: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/13/623

Since long (ca 2 years) on Gentoo forums there had been such emotional posts as C. Barry delivered. His  connotated arguments I evaluate the other way round:
1. all of systemd is opaque
But: never there had been so much documentation of Linux as a system
2. all of the distributions will become obsolete
Yes: I said this about the "coreOS" agenda of systemd long ago. But Linux for me as an advanced user becomes transparent in a way I can configure kind of my "own distribution" . 
3. all of us are forced to use systemd.
Reality: see Debian(A), Gentoo and alpinelinux  (see B)

While users love choice, developers of applications love to have a fixed and stable ground they can build upon. That is what drives projects like Gnome direction systemd. But the main reason why Debian choose systemd wasn't Gnome as Christopher Barry suggested, but the ability to debug the init. That was the main argument pro systemd early this year!   

Though, a smarter transition for Debian would have been
SysV - openRC - systemd
But that should have happend one release earlier. Instead of wasting years with an inconsistend workaround called "insserv".
« Last Edit: 2014/08/14, 01:09:09 by ralul »
experiencing siduction runs better than my gentoo makes me know I know nothing

Offline dibl

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Re: systemd, an opinion on LKML
« Reply #4 on: 2014/08/14, 02:56:15 »
÷1

Well said Ralul!
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Offline GoinEasy9

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Re: systemd, an opinion on LKML
« Reply #5 on: 2014/08/20, 19:31:41 »
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