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2019/11/14, 02:06:33


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Offline David

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Ideas for packages to be replaced
« on: 2019/02/22, 19:27:37 »

This is a place to discuss ideas for decreasing the number and size of packages in the next ISO.


Here is my initial set of ideas:

#1 bad package replacement: AUDACIOUS, SMPLAYER, SMTUBE, GPODDER


I propose that these packages
Code: [Select]
https://packages.debian.org/sid/sound/audacious
https://packages.debian.org/sid/sound/audacious-plugins
https://packages.debian.org/sid/smplayer
https://packages.debian.org/sid/gpodder
be replaced with VLC media player and its base plugins
Code: [Select]
https://packages.debian.org/sid/vlc
https://packages.debian.org/sid/vlc-plugin-base


Audacious only has the ability to play audio files, and while it may seem appealing with only a 0.7 MB pre-install footprint, it means that you need more packages to play video, do media streaming, etc. which means, ultimately, more space has been wasted than gained.


SMPlayer can play videos and even play youtube videos but we have firefox in the ISO so there is no need for it.


SMTube is again unnecessary as we have firefox to play youtube videos.


Gpodder has the ability to play podcasts and very little else. It has a .4 MB pre-install footprint which again can be supplemented.


I propose that instead of Audacious, SMPlayer, gPodder, and god knows what else was picked to do media playback and streaming be replaced with VLC media player.


VLC itself has a very small footprint, being less than 1 MB (pre-install) however its base plugins are 3.6 MB before install. I argue, however, that if you took the time to evaluate other packages (and dependencies) that are supplemented with VLC you will be able to save dozens of megabytes.


VLC: https://packages.debian.org/sid/vlc
VLC base plugins: https://packages.debian.org/sid/vlc-plugin-base


VLC Features:
* Audio and Video playback
* Audio and Video transcoding/file conversion
* network media streaming/home theater service
* Media sharing capabilities


Other things about VLC as opposed to the huge number of packages used to replace it:
* VLC has very few dependencies compared to the packages I highlighted
* Audacious is broken on my system due to an issue that arose with the package a few months ago but VLC is totally fine
* VLC has more playback capabilities than SMPlayer and SMTube thereby making it functionally superior
* More people have used VLC so it will make the distro more noob-friendly


#2 Bad package replacement: Mousepad


Mousepad's debian package page:
Code: [Select]
https://packages.debian.org/sid/editors/mousepad

Mousepad is an extremely basic text editor with a GUI interface. I suspect its conclusion is solely to provide a GUI text editor for people who've never used VIM in their lives and don't intend on learning any time soon. I find this necessary as well, so I will only mention GUI text editors that could replace it.


I think a GUI text editor should have the following features:
* UTF-8 and ASCII compatibility
* Syntax highlighting either by default for C and C++ or available through making config files/templates
* Dark mode to reduce eye strain (and this forum should have it too)


And I've found the following features EXTREMELY USEFUL in the past:
* keyboard shortcuts for indenting and de-indenting with tab and shift+tab across selected lines
* auto comment and auto uncomment with a keyboard shortcut across selected lines
* doubling as a hex editor
* run commands and place the output in the file at the cursor
*
Code: [Select]
https://packages.debian.org/sid/editors/KWrite has a smaller footprint and syntax highlighting for multiple languages, although its dependencies may be too large to justify the replacement.
https://packages.debian.org/sid/editors/gedit only 100 kB more and has syntax highlighting, themes, etc.
https://packages.debian.org/sid/editors/geany is significantly larger but has syntax highlighting and numerous other features including multiple newline convention compatibility and themes. My favorite text editor.



#3 Duplicate packages: qpdfview and evince


Both qpdfview and evince are present in the distro. I recommend replacing one of them with a program that can actually edit PDFs.


Do you guys have any ideas?
every GNU/Linux distro should come with quake (shareware floppy contents) running on a sourceport. If this happens, quake will quickly become the world's #1 first person shooter once again

Quake for GOTY 2020

Offline ReinerS

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #1 on: 2019/02/23, 11:37:03 »
I disagree.
Audacious is a nice little audioplayer ror running just in the "background". VLC is just too much overhead for that.Similar is mousepad, as an easy to use Editor.
On the rest I cannot say much, I sometimes use smplayer.
regards
Reiner
slackware => SuSE => kanotix => sidux => aptosid  => siduction

Offline axt

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #2 on: 2019/02/23, 14:33:38 »
Your threads show that you have a completely wrong conception of the distribution called siduction (there is also a history...aptosid, sidux, kanotix).

Only a handful of users are directly behind the project as developers, maintainers...Comparatively few others use this distribution.

siduction is a distribution for Linux enthusiasts who want to use up-to-date software, debian-based (usually a contradiction in terms). They deal with Linux or the distribution itself and can solve problems themselves.

In my experience that excludes players. They are a different kind of user.  A player needs a stable system, the imponderables of which he doesn't want to worry about.

Your advocacy of integrating quake port or similar into the images will only be smiled at here.

Images, plural. There are flavours, not just a single version. For each the respective maintainer decides the content.

You install the flavour with the largest intersection (or just noX or the one with xorg). What you don't like, what you don't need, you uninstall. What you additionally need, you install (thus also the plain text editor of your choice).

This is not a beginner distribution, we shouldn't have to talk about apt at all.

Offline dibl

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #3 on: 2019/02/23, 23:57:44 »
@David, if you have strong feelings about the contents of your gnome DE flavor ISO, perhaps you could contact the maintainer of that DE and see if you can help out with maintenance, sell your proposition, etc.

Hint: Down this page:

https://news.siduction.org/2018/05/release-notes-for-siduction-2018-3-0/
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Offline David

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #4 on: 2019/02/25, 00:43:27 »
I don't use the gnome flavor, I use LXDE. I know, theoretically we should include mousepad if we're going to use that, but i've been told by some little birds that this distro is having trouble fitting on a CD and some people are actually upset about it.


I think a quake sourceport is definitely worth the space if we can have 3+ terminal programs and 2 seperate PDF readers
every GNU/Linux distro should come with quake (shareware floppy contents) running on a sourceport. If this happens, quake will quickly become the world's #1 first person shooter once again

Quake for GOTY 2020

Offline piper

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #5 on: 2019/02/25, 02:01:29 »
Quote from: David
i've been told by some little birds that this distro is having trouble fitting on a CD and some people are actually upset about it.

This has to be the most all-time best post I have seen in a very long time

I want you to do a search in the year 2017, not 2019, to see how many distro's fit on a cd, were not including  "netinstalls"  thats cheating,  and if we were, siduction has noX

My custom fvwm-crystal is only 532mb's, anyone can make something of there own using noX

I actually don't care about your little birdies or what you've been told, is that suppose to force siduction to make a system to fit on something so yesterday and outdated as a cd. (you and your little birdies should look up fromiso, usb stick, dvd, pxe)

I've been told "papa's got a brand new bag" 

and what is this "we" and "we're" shit

Quote from: David
I know, theoretically we should include mousepad if we're going to use that

Does this mean you and your little birdies are going to build something with quake sourceport and it's going to fit on a cd, or are you just building a birdhouse.

I actually think your duck is out quaking, I can't reply to any of your posts anymore. I am really trying to be nice here.




I either give too many fucks or no fucks at all, it's like I cannot find a middle ground for a moderate fuck distribution, it's like what the fuck

Free speech isn't just fucking saying what you want to say, it's also hearing what you don't want to fucking hear

Offline axt

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #6 on: 2019/02/25, 02:09:27 »
I have been using LXDE (after Gnome2) for over 7 years (even now in VM and partly in the company), nobody needs to tell me anything about it (classically modest, resource-saving, completely sufficient). But LXDE is a discontinued model in favor of LXQt.

Official maintainer for the LXDE flavor (also) is agaida, still. Until he closes it out of disinterest and lack of time.

And CD? Pff...DVD size.

1.7 GiB for the last official image of May. Completely absurd in content (the LXQt-Flavor isn't much different, I'm just saying huge LibO - I'm leeching the current original of the TDF, all the time). Except for what doesn't change with LXDE anyway, almost everything is replaced with the first distupgrade, so it's pulled again.

You don't have to inflate it even more with packages that hardly anyone really uses and that anyone can install on demand.

It would make much more sense to finally get an upgraded siduction snapshot instead of waiting for the permanent sensitivities of all DEs to be resolved. This will never work.

noX or xorg is completely acceptable.


Offline axt

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #7 on: 2019/02/25, 02:29:36 »
Btw., you could create your own image with refracta. I have already done this with Lubuntu 2 years ago in preparation for a lecture for young professionals.


Offline sunrat

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #8 on: 2019/02/25, 10:17:50 »
What's a "CD"? IIRC they are some sort of legacy data media.  ;D
It's been said before that 100 different people will have 100 different preferences for included packages. Just use apt to change the ones in your installation to your favourites.Personally I don't have VLC installed, I much prefer MPV.

Offline piper

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Re: Ideas for packages to be replaced
« Reply #9 on: 2019/02/26, 03:37:05 »
I'm actually not a fan at all of refracta, devuan is just ok, nothing to write home about.

pyfll is light years ahead of refracta, not even in the same league, don't even do the same things, after using it a couple times, never seen what the big thing was about it.

I'll stick to pyfll, thats a true very fast way of making a custom rom.

If you are talking the tools (refractainstaller, refractasnapshot and refracta2usb)
I'm not really impressed
« Last Edit: 2019/02/26, 20:11:48 by piper »
I either give too many fucks or no fucks at all, it's like I cannot find a middle ground for a moderate fuck distribution, it's like what the fuck

Free speech isn't just fucking saying what you want to say, it's also hearing what you don't want to fucking hear