Hi!
Todays update seems to remove xorg and ruin the system. Two attempts to install it via Discover or terminal sudo apt full-upgrade were unsuccessful. Had to restore from Timeshift.
Same here. Xorg will be removed. So will have to wait...
Quote from: charlyheinz on 2025/12/12, 09:21:01
Same here. Xorg will be removed. So will have to wait...
To wait for what? Will they fix it?
For shure. Main pakages like this will be fixed soon. You will not be the only one having this problem. As you can see in the output of your pakagemanager that the complet xorg installation is deprecated right now. Actuall I'm not sure which pakage is cosing the problem.
But how are you upgrading your system? You are not using a pakagemanager like Discover doing this job, or?
Better run apt / apt-get in a terminal upgrading your system!! (read the manuals )
While writing this post here in a terminal apt-get update /apt-egt dist-upgrade is running fine and system is upgrading ;-)
Quote from: charlyheinz on 2025/12/12, 10:40:35
[...] Actuall I'm not sure which pakage is cosing the problem.
[...]
While writing this post here in a terminal apt-get update /apt-egt dist-upgrade is running fine and system is upgrading ;-)
I do assume the culprit is "xkb-data". [apt-get (dist-)upgrade does not ;) upgrade it (now).]
I just dist-upgrade and xkb-data is being held back for some reason. If I try to manually upgrade it much of X11 will be removed. We'll have to wait for a solution. There seams to be a conflict.
apt depends xkb-data
xkb-data
Breaks: x11-xkb-utils (<< 7.7+5)
Here apt does not upgrade xkb-data.
@ alexsid
Whatever is happening here, it's a reminder of what you get if you do not care about what apt is telling you in the "remove" section of it's output. And if discover hasn't shown packages to be removed you never ever should use it again.
BTW,
Quote... apt full-upgrade were unsuccessful
will never know what package you miss and repair your system.
Right thing to do would have been
apt install xorg which most likely will give you an apt error due to missing dependencies, which packages in a second, third ... try you'll have to append to the install command until it succeeds.
same here >:( , after rebooting i have a black screen tty1, already tried a dist-upgrade but no luck
Quote from: darknetmatrix on 2025/12/12, 14:27:27
same here >:( , after rebooting i have a black screen tty1, already tried a dist-upgrade but no luck
My question is as follows:
Will and when this issue be fixed by Debian or Siduction team? Or shall we find an effor themselves and fix it personally?
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 14:30:06
[...]
My question is as follows:
Will and when this issue be fixed by Debian or Siduction team? Or shall we find an effor themselves and fix it personally?
Well, the Debian developers are not "retarded", and since even the xkb-utils(!) do not fit the xkb-data package, I expect for the problem to go away within the next 24 to 48 hours.
It would be madness for the Siduction community to try and handle such an extensive number of depending packages. The only thing I could imagine is, for them (@towo?) to provide an older fitting xkb-data package in the meantime for those which can not install(!) the X11-System right now. All others should just sit it out.
[If you are experienced enough, you may have a look at the stable (trixie) and/or testing (forky) xkb-data package - may be it suffices.]
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 15:19:49
Quote from: ro_sid on 2025/12/12, 15:14:48
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 14:30:06
All others should just sit it out.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I will wait for the fix.
Hopefully it will be resolved quickly. Will a standard apt-update && apt-full dist-upgrade suffice to get the system working again? I ask because I am new to rolling Debian Sid. I would be very disappointed if my system stopped responding now that everything is installed. Anyway, I now know that I don't have to follow discover to the letter in order to perform an update. Unfortunately, this had to go hand in hand with a system that is now unusable.
Quote from: darknetmatrix on 2025/12/12, 15:28:26
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 15:19:49
Quote from: ro_sid on 2025/12/12, 15:14:48
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 14:30:06
All others should just sit it out.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I will wait for the fix.
Hopefully it will be resolved quickly. Will a standard apt-update && apt-full dist-upgrade suffice to get the system working again? I ask because I am new to rolling Debian Sid. I would be very disappointed if my system stopped responding now that everything is installed. Anyway, I now know that I don't have to follow discover to the letter in order to perform an update. Unfortunately, this had to go hand in hand with a system that is now unusable.
I did sudo apt full-upgrade first. And got the issue. So it would be wise to wait for a day or two till the issue will be resolved.
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 15:34:11
...
I did sudo apt full-upgrade first. And got the issue. ...
So why didn't you read the apt output where all packages to be removed got listed?
The same goes for you, darknetmatrix. As you are new to sid(uction), here one of the most important advices: read the apt output every time and never ever upgrade blindly. Never ever! Otherwise it's like crossing the street without looking at the trafic lights. And then, when you got hit, asking "why?" and "will it get fixed?".
Quote from: darknetmatrix on 2025/12/12, 15:28:26
Hopefully it will be resolved quickly. Will a standard apt-update && apt-full dist-upgrade suffice to get the system working again? I ask because I am new to rolling Debian Sid. I would be very disappointed if my system stopped responding now that everything is installed. Anyway, I now know that I don't have to follow discover to the letter in order to perform an update. Unfortunately, this had to go hand in hand with a system that is now unusable.
As long as there are no extensive new removals :), you should just do the "full-/dist-upgrade". But since packages were removed previously, not all of them are guaranteed to come back automatically. You could follow @michaa7's advice to do an
apt install xorg.
If you are really curious and willing to install some time, there is a file /var/log/apt/history.log which logs all apt activities, where you can read about the previous removals and then re-install any missing. It is often useful to install only "main programs" (first), not libraries or e.g. "-data" files or the like, since many of them are dependencies, which will be automatically installed also. Anyhow, you can "recover" any package previously removed, this way.
Quote from: michaa7 on 2025/12/12, 16:38:13
Quote from: alexsid on 2025/12/12, 15:34:11
...
I did sudo apt full-upgrade first. And got the issue. ...
So why didn't you read the apt output where all packages to be removed got listed?
The same goes for you, darknetmatrix. As you are new to sid(uction), here one of the most important advices: read the apt output every time and never ever upgrade blindly. Never ever! Otherwise it's like crossing the street without looking at the trafic lights. And then, when you got hit, asking "why?" and "will it get fixed?".
I've learned my lesson for today. Hopefully this will be resolved quickly, otherwise I'll be forced to do a new installation.
Is it also the case in a new installation that all updates would come in and there would be no working system again?
Quote from: darknetmatrix on 2025/12/12, 17:32:54
Is it also the case in a new installation that all updates would come in and there would be no working system again
That depends on how you install your system. When you are e.g. doing it from a Siduction ISO, all packages of programs that come with it are already installed (and will not vanish ;)). All additional packages can/will only be installed if all dependencies are met. So on a "full-/dist-upgrade"(du), saying "yes to all", yes, they may get removed again.
Advice is: If a "du" threatens to remove anything you want to keep and that is not just because of a newer version is available, then do not do a "du", but just an "upgrade". This will not remove anything (without replacement) from your system. Just try a "du" from time to time, saying "no" to it as long as anything would be removed, you want to keep.
Interesting... For me, using apt, I had nothing removed (and all is working) and xkb-data is listed in "Not Upgrading" section. I think this might be due to the new solver, but I am surprised that at least a few siduction users did not have it held back as well.
Back in business, did a reinstall and now i updated the system in a terminal and not with discover.
Just a simple apt update & apt upgrade ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/cSVkHCWh/12.png) (https://ibb.co/cSVkHCWh)
xkb-data issue (caused by keyboard-configuration apparently):
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1122650
And the other issue looks like glibc source package was updated, but some of the packages are unavailable (libc6:i386?)
EDIT: the libc issue is fixed now for me
@ darknetmatrix
But remember: It IS recomended not to use "apt update" regularly, it is a last resort if you need to update, but can't dist-upgrade for whatever reason. Your system NEEDS do be in syc with the general progress of the entirety of packages, which you can only achieve by using "apt dist-upgrade".
Do yourself a favor NOW and issue "apt update && apt dist-upgrade" AND THEN READ, especially the remove section, bevor pressing Y or N. Nothing evil can happen until you press "y". And try to understand the apt output. Ask if neccessary. Most likely apt will not remove the packages discover did.
Long story short: "apt upgrade" is NOT the recommended way of keeping your system up-to-date! It is not the better way!
I recommend Timeshift. It's in the Repos and once set up, updating is stress-free, because you can go back easily to a working state before at any time.
Quote from: michaa7 on 2025/12/13, 00:41:18
@ darknetmatrix
But remember: It IS recomended not to use "apt update" regularly, it is a last resort if you need to update, but can't dist-upgrade for whatever reason. Your system NEEDS do be in syc with the general progress of the entirety of packages, which you can only achieve by using "apt dist-upgrade".
Do yourself a favor NOW and issue "apt update && apt dist-upgrade" AND THEN READ, especially the remove section, bevor pressing Y or N. Nothing evil can happen until you press "y". And try to anderstand the apt output. Ask if neccessary. Most likely apt will not remove the packages discover did.
Long story short: "apt upgrade" is NOT the recommended way of keeping your system up-to-date! It is not the better way!
just did the apt du, rebooted the machine and posting from it, so everything is working fine now :D.
Updates from now on will be in the terminal and not anymore in 'discover', lesson learned.
Quote from: Fellfrosch on 2025/12/13, 07:36:09
I recommend Timeshift. It's in the Repos and once set up, updating is stress-free, because you can go back easily to a working state before at any time.
Setting up timeshift, will save snapshots on an external drive.
(https://i.ibb.co/1tYm9ktK/13.png) (https://ibb.co/1tYm9ktK)
It is not at all easy for a beginner with sid to see the tsunami rolling!
Upgrading:
cryptsetup libc-dev-bin libldb2 python3-markdown
cryptsetup-bin libc-devtools libnm0 python3-samba
cryptsetup-initramfs libc-gconv-modules-extra libpq5 python3-talloc
ctdb libc-l10n libsmbclient0 python3-tdb
dconf-cli libc6 libtalloc2 samba-ad-provision
dconf-gsettings-backend libc6-dev libtdb1 samba-common
dconf-service libcamel-1.2-64t64 libtevent0t64 samba-dsdb-modules
evolution-data-server-common libcryptsetup12 libvte-2.91-0 samba-libs
gir1.2-nm-1.0 libdconf1 libvte-2.91-common samba-vfs-modules
gir1.2-vte-2.91 libebackend-1.2-11t64 libwbclient0 smbclient
gnome-flashback libebook-1.2-21t64 libwireplumber-0.5-0 sqv
gnome-flashback-common libebook-contacts-1.2-4t64 libyuv0 tdb-tools
ldb-tools libedata-book-1.2-27t64 locales thunderbird
libasound2-data libedataserver-1.2-27t64 network-manager thunderbird-l10n-de
libasound2t64 libevdev2 publicsuffix thunderbird-l10n-en-gb
libatopology2t64 libfribidi0 python-markdown-doc tzdata
libc-bin libgnome-panel3 python3-ldb wireplumber
Installing dependencies:
libsimdutf29
Not upgrading:
xkb-data
Summary:
Upgrading: 68, Installing: 1, Removing: 0, Not Upgrading: 1
..., Removing: 0, ...
I have learned the hard way and only use "apt --solver 3.0 full-upgrade" without any further problem. It works right out of the box for me! :)
Quote from: darknetmatrix on 2025/12/13, 08:08:44
Setting up timeshift, will save snapshots on an external drive.
Cron is running?
If not, as root:
systemctl enable cron.serviceor there will be no automatic snapshots.
cron is running after your post, tnx. for the hint
Edit: NVM
Is it safe to use Plasma-Discover
Quote from: ruebe99 on 2025/12/13, 21:10:18
Is it safe to use Plasma-Discover
Not to upgrade regularly. Use the terminal and:
apt update
apt dist-upgradeRead what is going to happen before you answer y.
thanks for your fast reply but isn't it more safer to run an
apt --solver 3.0 full-upgrade
instead?
discover is running permanentely, providing updates and asking for a confirmation to proceed.
my questions is: can discover kill my system
cheers
Yes, apt solver is definitely a great option. For me it's built in. If there is a bad package situation apt will tell me which one and hold back the package. You should have the same thing by default. If not use apt solver.
apt dist-upgrade
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
libsimdutf27
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove it.
Upgrading:
debhelper libdebhelper-perl
Not upgrading:
ffmpeg xkb-data
Summary:
Upgrading: 2, Installing: 0, Removing: 0, Not Upgrading: 2
Download size: 1,035 kB
Space needed: 7,168 B / 7,058 MB available
Quote from: ruebe99 on 2025/12/13, 21:31:38
thanks for your fast reply but isn't it more safer to run an
apt --solver 3.0 full-upgrade
instead?
discover is running permanentely, providing updates and asking for a confirmation to proceed.
my questions is: can discover kill my system
cheers
yes it can, that was the problem i had
Strange, what i don't understand is i just did a apt-distupgrade and discover says there are 22 updates?
(https://i.ibb.co/0yR6dnWd/update.png) (https://ibb.co/0yR6dnWd)
It's not telling you what to update (these versions are already installed) but rather what to remove, if you proceed.
I removed Discover a long time ago it may work with plasma desktop on stable OS but not reliable on sid
Those are a list of abandon packages. Especially that old kernel. I would make sure there is nothing on the list you absolutely need(likely not) then purge them. It says to use apt autoremove but you better off to use apt autopurge. This will get rid of any config file as well.
Quote from: ruebe99 on 2025/12/13, 21:31:38
... isn't it more safer to run an
apt --solver 3.0 full-upgrade
...
No.
1) dist-upgrade and full-upgrade are exactly the same, one is just a link to the other (they are still both existing due to historical reasons)
2) --solver 3.0 is the default solver since a few weeks ago, so no need to select it manually
Frage:
Ist apt update in diesem falle unbedenklich ?
Gruß solo
QuoteFrage:
Ist apt update in diesem falle unbedenklich ?
apt update alleine ist immer unbedenklich und notwendig, um überhaupt zu sehen, welche Aktualisierungen anstehen.
Die Entscheidung ob und was bzw. aktualisiert wird (apt upgrade oder apt full-upgrade) triffst du dann danach.
Pause ?
< Fehl:2 https://siduction.office-vienna.at/fixes unstable InRelease
Verbindung mit siduction.office-vienna.at:443 kann nicht aufgebaut werden (2a02:8384:205::1:51dc). - connect (101: Das Netzwerk ist nicht erreichbar)
Fehl:1 https://siduction.office-vienna.at/extra unstable InRelease
Verbindung mit siduction.office-vienna.at:443 nicht möglich (85.125.193.22) - connect (111: Verbindungsaufbau abgelehnt) Verbindung mit siduction.office-vienna.at:443 kann nicht aufgebaut werden (2a02:8384:205::1:51dc). - connect (101: Das Netzwerk ist nicht erreichbar)
Verbindung mit siduction.office-vienna.at:443 kann nicht aufgebaut werden (2a02:8384:205::1:51dc). - connect (101: Das Netzwerk ist nicht erreichbar) >
Gruß solo
Quote from: solo on 2025/12/16, 16:47:27
Pause ?
That looks like a completely different issue than the problem with xkb-data (which was what this thread was originally about): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1122650
You should probably start your own thread. Somehow, this thread turned into a general discussion of apt solvers, Discover, etc.
The bottom line is that folks either need to wait for that bug to be fixed, or, if they can't wait for some reason, they can probably cleanly upgrade everything but xkb-data. But I doubt Siduction devs are going to endorse "selectively" upgrading like that.
Quote from: seasons on 2025/12/16, 18:51:39
... they can probably cleanly upgrade everything but xkb-data.
Not "probably".
# apt update && apt full-upgrade in run level 3, tty1, as I have done every day this month on four siduction systems, with no issues whatever. xkb-data is not upgraded, as apt will tell you.
Quote from: dibl on 2025/12/16, 21:36:27
Not "probably".
Yeah, probably. Because things can change quickly in sid, like the libc issue I wrote about a couple days ago.
To summarize:
- currently, there is no solution available if your installation has been compromised
- there are many knowledgeable individuals who could potentially safeguard their own systems
- aside from waiting, there is no other solution at this time
true or wrong?
Cheers - ruebe99
Until xkb-data is fixed upstream there is nothing to do but wait. It currently does not have any effect on the system and apt is holding it back. With Sid this happens time to time. That's why it's called unstable.
Well, (for me) it takes too long for the Debian maintainers to fix this thing, which has an immense impact. I am really disappointed. Would someone try an "ab ovo" install of sid/unstable, without coming from a working ISO - like Siduction -, a reasonable X11 install is as good as impossible.
Yes, it's a good idea to have a secundary Linux installed, with the most wantet progs, I am use as secundary debian (old)stable.
My personal way to updates/upgrades:
- looking for upgrade warnings here
- reboot the computer
- switch to a tty: press strg+alt+F3 (don't use a konsole/terminal under X!!!), or, if I'm on an other computer, I'm using ssh with screen
# systemctl isolate multi-user.target; apt update && apt -d full-upgrade
The -d in apt -d full-upgrade does only download the packiges but do not install them. (i use it in a script named mupgr.sh)
- take a look for the summery, if I'm not sure, I look to the details...
- okay:
# apt full-upgrade
- not okay:
# apt upgrade
hope it helps and please excuse my bad english
Currently there is no need to intervene with apt. If you apt dist-upgrade you will be presented with the list of packages to be upgraded. It will also tell you if there are new packages to be installed, if anything is to be removed and if there are any hold backs to prevent breakage.
Not sure if this is the same issue I'm having, I see in this thread that it started on the 15th, but I know that I have dist-upgraded then, and also dist-upgraded on the 16th, but I couldn't boot my intel graphics HD 620 laptop today on the 17th.
I also dist upgraded on the same schedule my good laptop with nvidia graphics in the same days, and it just works today, so this would point to an issue with the i915 driver.
A chatgpt session had me trying to install kernel 6.6, and to disable guc in grub, but nothing changes.
The only way to get a stable tty3 shell is by booting 6.17-11, and do Ctrl-Alt-F3 while there is a solitary blinking cursor where gdm should appear.
If I use any other kernel, or if I try the enable_guc=0 edit, the system will just freeze making it impossible to do stuff in tty3 or sometimes even access it at all.
Sometimes Ctrl-Alt-Del will work to reboot the system anyway, some other times I will have to keep the power button pressed to turn it off.
I couldn't install xserver-xorg to fallback on xfce and be able to access the system, because of a dependency issue ("blahblah is not going to be installed"), and I also have the xkb-data not being upgraded in both laptops.
Running Gnome wayland on both laptops.
I am now scared to try and reboot my good laptop for fear of having an unworkable system here too, and I kinda need this to work.
an easy fix is to reinstall version 2.42 that you can download from e.g. https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/25.04/ubuntu-main-amd64/xkb-data_2.42-1ubuntu1_all.deb.html
Then I used synaptic, locked the package version of the downgraded xkb-data(2.42.1) and then reinstall xorg and deleted packages.
it worked for me.
Quote from: lionel on 2025/12/17, 17:26:38
an easy fix is to reinstall version 2.42 that you can download from e.g. https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/25.04/ubuntu-main-amd64/xkb-data_2.42-1ubuntu1_all.deb.html
Then I used synaptic, locked the package version of the downgraded xkb-data(2.42.1) and then reinstall xorg and deleted packages.
it worked for me.
does this mean that the whole woe comes from the xkb-data package being held to an older version? I don't particularly recall any removals happening during dist-upgrade (except me autoremoving unneeded packages), and xkb-data is at version 2.42-1 which is the same you linked to
Quote from: lionel on 2025/12/17, 17:26:38
an easy fix is to reinstall version 2.42 that you can download from e.g. https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/25.04/ubuntu-main-amd64/xkb-data_2.42-1ubuntu1_all.deb.html
Then I used synaptic, locked the package version of the downgraded xkb-data(2.42.1) and then reinstall xorg and deleted packages.
it worked for me.
This is sid(uction)!
I don't know why I should include Ubuntu packages here. >:(
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhQ9gZmt/Screenshot-17-Dez-19-44-13-20773.png) (https://postimg.cc/mhQ9gZmt)
Again, Siduction works fine with a held back package. You need to pay attention to what apt is telling you. You would have been notified that x11 plus was being removed and you said yes. You got what you asked for. There is no way I would install a Ubuntu package. You could be creating more problems than you started with.
The current situation is not a new one. This happens once a year and should not come as a surprise if you are running Sid. As a permanent fallback, I have been using a Tumbleweed (a rolling release, too) for years, and it works fine whenever needed. Nevertheless, Debian Sid is inherently risky but challenging. In the worst case, I might have to wait a couple of weeks to get back on track; that is Sid by nature.
My experience over the decades: always have a backup or alternate system (LTS, or even better, an alternative and non-Debian distribution) — we're talking about 20 to 30 GB of disk space here. It's wise to wait before you downgrade. Swapping your home directory from A to B is not that complicated. There may be some inconveniences, but no serious issues.
And in doubt, a simple apt update and apt upgrade (not dist-upgrade or full-upgrade) might help for a while.
cheers
Here is the problem:
Recent Debian package keyboard-configuration_1.244_all.deb depends on
Depends: [...] xkb-data (<< 2.42A)
We can easily fix the dependency to
Depends: [...] xkb-data (<< 2.46A)
The system now happily installs the offending package xkb-data_2.46-1_all.deb, but we
run into another very delicate problem: xkb-data_2.46-1_all.deb replaces former
directory /usr/share/X11/xkb by a symbolic link of the same name (pointing to
/usr/share/X11/xkeyboard-config-2), which contains all necessary config files.
But since the old directory already exists, the package manager fails to remove it
in favor of the new symbolic link of the same name (I think this is a bug of the package
manager) with severe consequences:
Sddm is still depending on Xorg in order to start the greeter, but Xorg cannot find its
configuration files in /usr/share/X11/xkb, since the directory is empty as a consequence
of xkb-data's update and the missing symbolic link. So Xorg fails to start and therefore
the screen remains blank. Now that we know, here is the fix:
1) Modify the ../DEBIAN/control file of keyboard-configuration_1.244_all.deb
by the following lines:
Version: 1.244b
Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, liblocale-gettext-perl, xkb-data (>= 2.42~), xkb-data (<< 2.46A)
Install the modified package and du to include the recent xkb-data_2.46-1_all.deb file.
Remove /usr/share/X11/xkb:
$ sudo rmdir /usr/share/X11/xkb
Manually create the missing link:
$ cd /usr/share/X11
$ sudo ln -s ../xkeyboard-config-2 /usr/share/X11/xkb
That does the trick.
Regarding my setups, I made a "mistake" by shutting down my good laptop with nvidia card when I got off it, but when I just turned it back on, yes it gave me a small stroke because the blank screen with cursor on top left stayed on for one too many seconds, yet at the end GDM greeted me.
This laptop is better specs than the other one, has a fairly good, for the times, nvidia card, and also keeps rolling with xkb-data being held back.
The other laptop, an even older HP with intel graphics, has been dist-upgraded every day, and both of them have not had weird removals during dist-upgrades, apt is nice that way, to show you in bright red when things are planned to be uninstalled, and I make sure to closely examine what's in there, and none of the two had any removals planned in the last days.
But, the slower laptop with intel graphics, which I just managed to boot to alternative shell on 6.17-12, was dist-upgraded once more a little while ago, rebooted, and still no GDM.
Everything points to graphics drivers being the issue.
@Teriarch: Thanks for deeply analyzing the problem and the (viable) solution!
But I am still mad on the maintainer not having introduced an interim solution - like yours - or a final one. This small package - and is it really that important? - obstructs so many things (e.g. a working debootstrap as soon as any X11 components are involved, even as dependencies, only). Offering nothing for now nearly a week is a shame!
[Even you were faster :). A pity that you can not "inject" your solution in the official repository.]
this seems to be relevant
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/4519
Would it be safe for me to upgrade but hold xkb-data (apt-mark hold xkb-data) ? I do not get any removes if I hold xkb-data, or do you all think its better to just sit tight for now?
if at all, I'd try dist-upgrade, not upgrade, because d-u would certainly avoid dependency problems.
@terroreek
> [...], or do you all think its better to just sit tight for now?
Yes, that's maybe the best. I falsely assumed that the Debian package manager
is to blame, but it is not. The man page of dpkg-maintscript-helper in section
"Switching a directory to symlink" clearly reads:
"If a real directory is switched to a symlink, you need to make sure before
unpacking that the directory is removed."
xkb-data version 2.46-1 does not remove directory xkb prior to symlink it.
It's not an easy task, because you must ensure that no other packages
use that same directory beforehand. In case at hand the package
keyboards-rg: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/eo_rg
could share the directory, so the package manager keeps the directory
even if it's empty. Hence the symlink has no effect. The recent version
of package xkb-data is definitely broken since they do not follow the
guidelines of dpkg-maintscript-helper, so we have to wait...
And here we go:
<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1122650#50>
--
Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?
The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
By T. S. Eliot
Quote from: Teriarch on 2025/12/18, 17:33:47
And here we go:
<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1122650#50>
[...]
Thanks (again) and let us keep our fingers crossed.
@ro_sid
> [...] let us keep our fingers crossed.
Yep, unfortunately w/o modification keyboard-configuration
version 1.244 does not yet play nice with xkb-data.
I'm also having issues with the latest mesa update wanting to remove a bunch of packages.
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1123577
I said "Screw it" and updated to mesa 25.3.1 from experimental.
Quote from: n4ai9i522 on 2025/12/17, 14:08:48
couldn't boot my intel graphics HD 620 laptop today on the 17th.
please try:
# apt install libc6then reboot the computer
Quote from: T-ampfer on 2025/12/18, 22:38:12
Quote from: n4ai9i522 on 2025/12/17, 14:08:48
couldn't boot my intel graphics HD 620 laptop today on the 17th.
please try:
# apt install libc6
then reboot the computer
I'm afraid that looks quite random :)
libc6 can't not be already install, and
dpkg -l | grep libc6
yields 3 results, for libc6, libc6-dev and libc6-i386, at version 2.42
But I am currently dist-upgrading from shell again and getting the latest kernel 6.18, xkb-data is being upgraded, mesa-va-drivers and vdpau pckages are being removed, let's see, cannot be worse than now!
Pleased to be the first to report that, at least in my case, the latest dist-upgrade with kernel 6.18 and xkb-data updates, and mesa-va-drivers removal, brought me to a working gnome wayland desktop.
Chatgpt told me that without mesa-va-drivers and intel hd graphics I won't have video acceleration but I can live with it.
on the other side, my good laptop with nvidia card, whic has been working with gnome wayland in the meantime, has had only mesa-va removed, but xkb-data still kept back...
@n4ai9i522
mesa-va has not been dropped with the 25.3 release, only mesa-vdpau support.
If you need the latter, maybe libvdpau-va-gl1 will help.
Looks like vdpau is available for my nvidia laptop through proprietary nvidia drivers, and is not needed at all for intel hd graphics, so I should be good about that
@n4ai9i522
> [...], so I should be good about that
Well that depends. They dropped the user space api support. If some of your applications
still needs shared library /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/vdpau/libvdpau_r600.so.1.0.0, say,
then you are out of luck, unless the native nvidia drivers provide that very same library
(which I doubt).
Maybe someone has problems with cats and dogs—welcome to this thread! But is there already a solution with xkb-data? Can I install a new Siduction and run a dist-upgrade?
In case of doubt, I will share my experience regarding guinea pigs if required. Until then, I am proudly staring at a broken installation instead.
cheers
I'm not completely familiar with this xkb-data problem. But if you install siduction and then set on hold xkb-data
(apt-mark hold xkb-data)
there should be no problem with a dist-upgrade. You won't be able to have all packages upgraded as long as xkb-data isn't fixed. but why is this a problem?
Quote from: ruebe99 on 2025/12/19, 21:23:29
Until then, I am proudly staring at a broken installation instead.
So you already upgraded and removed a bunch of stuff? Is that what you mean?
Here's a link to the "old" package if you need it (do not use the Ubuntu version someone linked to earlier)
https://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/x/xkeyboard-config/xkb-data_2.42-1_all.deb
Thanks for your reply! As far as I know, the headline of this thread is "Update of 12-12-25 Ruins the System." If that little issue is fixed, please let me know about your solution.
cheers
So I ended up updating but before upgrading did an apt-mark hold xkb-data then did a nala upgrade. No issues with Gnome on Wayland.
Quote from: ruebe99 on 2025/12/19, 22:18:30
If that little issue is fixed, please let me know about your solution.
No! For the third time, here is the bug - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1122650
Until that is fixed, you cannot upgrade xkb-data. (And that does not mean your system is "broken".)
nala upgrade
Ok, your system is fine, but I would have done a dist-upgrade instead.
If I hold back a package because of known problems it creates, I would like to keep back all packages which depend on said package and I would like all dependencies to be calculated. Which can be accomplished only by dist-upgrade.
But I'm not an expert.
Is only my 2 cents
The issue with xkb-data should be fixed later on today with the upload of console-setup 1.245.
Quote from: devil on 2025/12/20, 07:35:12
The issue with xkb-data should be fixed later on today with the upload of console-setup 1.245.
It just worked well for me!
[... and I am also using Nvidia drivers. The
(mesa-)'vdpau's have been removed, though. Although that happened already previously,
before the
xkb-data package was updated.]
Yes, this worked fine and updated properly. This circumventing the system to force an upgrade to a package was nonsense. Unpacking debs and installing Ubuntu packages could be potentially dangerous. Be patient, let the system work.
all is back - after d-u I installed xorg, kwin-x11 and kwin-wayland sucessfully.
cheers
2025-12-20 10:14:52,376 INFO - calculating md5sum of live media iso image...
2025-12-20 10:14:58,384 INFO - calculating sha256sum of live media iso image...
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso.md5
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.manifest
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso.sha256
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.sources
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - build duration was 6 minutes and 21 seconds
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - cleaning up...
root@x2:/home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll# exit
[language=english][/language]# LANG=C apt --fix-broken install
Correcting dependencies... Done
Upgrading:
xkb-data
Summary:
Upgrading: 1, Installing: 0, Removing: 0, Not Upgrading: 0
27 not fully installed or removed.
Download size: 0 B / 830 kB
Space needed: 3.985 kB / 43,6 GB available
Continue? [Y/n]
(Reading database ... 349400 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../xkb-data_2.46-2_all.deb ...
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: file '/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/de_oldbackup' not owned by package 'xkb-data:all'
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: file '/usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev.xml_oldbackup' not owned by package 'xkb-data:all'
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: directory '/usr/share/X11/xkb' contains files not owned by package xkb-data:all, cannot switch to symlink
dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/xkb-data_2.46-2_all.deb (--unpack):
new xkb-data package preinst maintainer script subprocess failed with exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
/var/cache/apt/archives/xkb-data_2.46-2_all.deb
needrestart is being skipped since dpkg has failed
Error: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Quote from: piper on 2025/12/20, 19:21:40
2025-12-20 10:14:52,376 INFO - calculating md5sum of live media iso image...
2025-12-20 10:14:58,384 INFO - calculating sha256sum of live media iso image...
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso.md5
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.manifest
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso.sha256
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.sources
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - build duration was 6 minutes and 21 seconds
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - cleaning up...
root@x2:/home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll# exit
@piper, I'm glad to see you and really hope you're doing well!
ps. you're getting ahead of yourself ;D
Quote from: samoht on 2025/12/21, 09:22:27
...
Error: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
apt update && apt dist-upgradeare you holding back a package?
Quoteare you holding back a package?
Thanks for attention, @michaa7; no package.
# apt-mark showhold
#
Quote from: samoht on 2025/12/21, 09:22:27
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: file '/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/de_oldbackup' not owned by package 'xkb-data:all'
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: file '/usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev.xml_oldbackup' not owned by package 'xkb-data:all'
You can probably delete those files. Or, if you think you need them, temporarily move them out of /usr/share/X11/xkb/, do the upgrade, and put them in /usr/share/xkeyboard-config-2
Quote from: unklarer on 2025/12/21, 10:16:56
Quote from: piper on 2025/12/20, 19:21:40
2025-12-20 10:14:52,376 INFO - calculating md5sum of live media iso image...
2025-12-20 10:14:58,384 INFO - calculating sha256sum of live media iso image...
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso.md5
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.manifest
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso.sha256
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.sources
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - /home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll/iso-build/kde/siduction-2025.1.0-Shine_on-kde-amd64-202512201455.iso
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - build duration was 6 minutes and 21 seconds
2025-12-20 10:15:00,952 INFO - cleaning up...
root@x2:/home/piper2/pyfll/pyfll# exit
@piper, I'm glad to see you and really hope you're doing well!
ps. you're getting ahead of yourself ;D
it's been a good 7 or 8 years since i touched a debian system, i decided to come back, first thing i did was build a kde and a fwvm-crystal system :)
nice to see you also :)
Quote from: samoht on 2025/12/21, 09:22:27
[language=english][/language]# LANG=C apt --fix-broken install
Correcting dependencies... Done
Upgrading:
xkb-data
Summary:
Upgrading: 1, Installing: 0, Removing: 0, Not Upgrading: 0
27 not fully installed or removed.
Download size: 0 B / 830 kB
Space needed: 3.985 kB / 43,6 GB available
Continue? [Y/n]
(Reading database ... 349400 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../xkb-data_2.46-2_all.deb ...
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: file '/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/de_oldbackup' not owned by package 'xkb-data:all'
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: file '/usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev.xml_oldbackup' not owned by package 'xkb-data:all'
dpkg-maintscript-helper: error: directory '/usr/share/X11/xkb' contains files not owned by package xkb-data:all, cannot switch to symlink
dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/xkb-data_2.46-2_all.deb (--unpack):
new xkb-data package preinst maintainer script subprocess failed with exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
/var/cache/apt/archives/xkb-data_2.46-2_all.deb
needrestart is being skipped since dpkg has failed
Error: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
you can try
dpkg-reconfigure xkb-dataif that don't work you can try
dpkg -r xkb-data
apt autoremove -y
rm xkb-data_2.46-2_all.debi am very rusty in debian so ignore if this don't help
Thank you, too, @piper and @seasons, for your help. Moving the old backup files out of the way did the trick.
I am not sure if related but I updated the laptop few days ago and now I have issues with the launch of KDE.
Basically there is the kernel log output stopping on Session 2, I press ctrl+f2 and appears sddm with a strange theme asking me to login.
I insert the password and KDE starts but without systemd for the user, so I have to execute manually systemd --user and restart pipewire (that doesn't detect the bluetooth devices).
In logs I have various errors for missing permission and dbus seems doesn't working, probably because isn't the right session.
I think that everthing happened because I was using xorg and not wayland...
I am getting tons of dump i nthe home folder and inspecting them it is seems that kwin has issues to creating a wayland socket.
I did a dist-upgrade and I don't have any package pending but I ithin that is something is wrong.
Did you check if any packages were removed lately?
cat /var/log/dpkg.log | grep remove
2025-12-22 18:49:02 startup packages remove
2025-12-22 18:49:04 remove linux-headers-6.15.9-1-siduction-amd64:amd64 6.15-9 <none>
2025-12-22 18:49:05 remove linux-image-6.15.9-1-siduction-amd64:amd64 6.15-9 <none>
2025-12-22 18:50:37 startup packages remove
2025-12-22 18:50:38 remove espanso:amd64 2.2.2 <none>
2025-12-23 10:09:57 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:09:57 remove libgtk-4-media-gstreamer:amd64 4.18.6+ds-3 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:07 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:10:07 remove libgvc6-plugins-gtk:amd64 2.42.4-3 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:08 remove libgvc6:amd64 2.42.4-3 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:17 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:10:18 remove libnode115:amd64 20.19.4+dfsg-1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:24 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:10:24 remove vdpau-driver-all:amd64 1.5-3+b1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:25 remove mesa-vdpau-drivers:amd64 25.2.8-2+b3 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:25 remove vdpau-driver-all:i386 1.5-3+b1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:26 remove mesa-vdpau-drivers:i386 25.2.8-2+b3 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:33 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:10:34 remove mesa-va-drivers:i386 25.2.2-1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:10:35 remove mesa-va-drivers:amd64 25.2.2-1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:14:20 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:14:20 remove libplasmaactivities6:amd64 6.3.4-1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:20:50 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:20:50 remove libpostproc-dev:amd64 7:7.1.1-1+b8 <none>
2025-12-23 10:26:36 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:26:37 remove libreoffice-qt5:amd64 4:25.2.3-2 <none>
2025-12-23 10:26:53 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:26:53 remove libxmlsec1t64-openssl:amd64 1.2.41-1+b1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:26:53 remove libxmlsec1t64:amd64 1.2.41-1+b1 <none>
2025-12-23 10:26:54 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 10:26:54 remove libxmlsec1t64-nss:amd64 1.2.41-1+b1 <none>
2025-12-23 11:58:21 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 11:58:25 remove touchegg:amd64 2.0.9 <none>
2025-12-23 12:01:24 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 12:01:24 remove libselinux1-dev:amd64 3.8.1-1 <none>
2025-12-23 12:02:18 startup packages remove
2025-12-23 12:02:19 remove recordmydesktop:amd64 0.4.0-1+b3 <none>
I don't think that I removed a package but there is a bug somewhere.
The last update on my laptop it was in october so something in the middle broke something.
Attached the systemd log if someone can help.
You had multiple packages removed just yesterday.
I saw that various packages were removed but I didn't say anything that could create that issue.