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2018/12/14, 16:30:15


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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: CAUTION -- python3.7 will remove hplip, libreoffice, etc. etc.  (Read 3136 times)

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Offline Xaver

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@piper   @melmarker
Sorry – I still do not understand why?
What harm can apt-mark hold python3 do? As long as I keep my python3 3.6.7-1 installation complete, it should work.
You claim that is not sure. So what can happen?

Offline devil

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Xaver,
instead of putting packages on hold and forgetting about them later on, you can just do apt upgrade until the situation is resolved. Hold is meant for longer terms than what the situation is right now.

A good example of what might happen with forgotten holds is: https://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=7468.msg60785#msg60785
« Last Edit: 2018/11/23, 19:28:16 by devil »

Offline Xaver

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@ devil
Thanks. Ok, forgotten holds can become a problem. (apt-mark showhold would solve that.)
In this case I have put python3 on hold, did my full-upgrade and then put python3 on unhold again. So I get a full-upgrade of all the not affected packages.

Apt apgrade does less: an upgrade of the not effected packages only. So it is quite similar.

Offline tranquil

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Why all this "hold" why not just wait?
Because I don't like dealing with a large amount of packages to be upgraded, especially when you resort to cherry-picking packages to be upgraded.

As to the other comments, I've held problem packages for quite some time and have not been bitten yet.  I always unhold held packages after performing a full-upgrade.  I also make a point to check here to see if some other action may be required; e.g. let packages be removed and then re-install them.    I NEVER put a package on permanent hold.
Dual-booting Debian Stable and Unstable with Openbox window manager and Tint2 panel.

Offline Xaver

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If you do not want to deal with a large amount of packages to be upgraded
it boils down to
'upgrade' (Devils approach) or 'full-upgrade' (use of hold) of the not affected packages.
I prefer 'full-upgrade', but I might be wrong.
« Last Edit: 2018/11/24, 13:37:27 by Xaver »

Offline vilde

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If you do not want to deal with a large amount of packages to be upgraded
it boils down to
'upgrade' (Devils approach) or 'full-upgrade' (use of hold) of the not affected packages.
I prefer 'full-upgrade', but I might be wrong.
I don't agree, you can just be "Patience", as the developers of siduction i telling. Most of the time d-u is going without problems, no need to rush things if there is no specific app(s)  that someone absolutely needs to be updated immediately.
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Offline piper

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It depends largely on what is going on, "kept back", "transitions", "broken packages"

"upgrade" is frowned upon on both testing & sid for good reason, BUT, in "certain circumstances" you will have to do (this is largely used if you haven't done a du in like 3 months"

"hold" is a very stupid thing to do (especially in sid)  and as of to date, there is no reason to do it full stop.

If you do "hold" packages and don't have the patience to wait a few hours/maybe a day/maybe 2 days  maybe sid is not for you.

It's funny going to different forums and irc and seeing "why" and then after 1000 posts the op finally says "I have this and this and this on hold"

 'full-upgrade' (use of hold) should not be used in the same sentence, it's just so wrong  :P

I have made it a rule to just politely say "your on your own"


Code: [Select]
apt update; apt full-upgrade

All packages are up to date.
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

And that is with Plasma 5.14
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siduction d-u warnings

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Offline sotnik

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I come from sidux -> aptosid and now siduction. I always use apt-listbugs & hold and I had zero issues.I know this forum is against listbugs & hold but for me works quite well.At the moment I have python3  python3-dev  python3-minimal iptables libpython3-stdlib:amd64.Also, I postpone the installation of nvidia-driver  till the bug filled will be cleared out

Code: [Select]
critical bugs of nvidia-driver (→ 390.87-3) <Outstanding>
 b1 - #905309 - nvidia-modeset: WARNING: GPU:0: Lost display notification (0:0x00000000); continuing
serious bugs of xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (→ 390.87-3) <Outstanding>
 b2 - #903121 - xserver-xorg-video-nvidia: blank screen, CPU fan goes to max and the systems freezes
serious bugs of dkms (→ 2.6.1-1) <Outstanding>
 b3 - #884658 - dkms: Should really depends on dpkg-dev for dpkg-architecture

The only problem that this approach has is that after so many years I use linux I continue to be a beginner since I did not need many times to fix problems


EDIT: Code tags added for better readability (piper, Moderator)
« Last Edit: 2018/11/25, 14:10:59 by piper »

Offline piper

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Quote from: tranquil
Because I don't like dealing with a large amount of packages to be upgraded

Interesting   :o  and your actually saying this with a straight face using sid ;)

The unstable repositories are updated every 6 hours. This happens in debian 4 times per day, each versus 05:00, 11:00, 17:00 and 23:00

This can be/will be/most likely be/ etc ..  large amounts of packages in a sid environment, and don't get me started with transitions ;)

Sooner or later, and I don't care who you are, practicing this hold shit will bite you in the ass sooner or later, you are, after all, a human

It happens to the best of us, and because it does happen, we learn from past mistakes, well, there are exceptions, some people never/want to learn.

All that being said, it's your machine, you do it your way :P
« Last Edit: 2018/11/25, 14:12:54 by piper »
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Offline melmarker

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so - there was really a transition bug for python3.7  https://bugs.debian.org/913069
https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/python3.7-default.htm
Code: [Select]
2018-11-25  13:48:51 <olasd> agaida: maybe you missed #913069 ?
2018-11-25  13:48:54 [zwiebelbot] Debian#913069: transition: python3.7 as default - https://bugs.debian.org/913069
2018-11-25  13:50:02 <agaida> thanks olasd - i was blind. sorry for the noisy, but really don't see it in the running transitions
2018-11-25  13:50:31 <jrtc27> https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/python3.7-default.html ?
2018-11-25  13:50:47 <mapreri> somehow it's not exported to the PTS, but it is perfectly tracked by the release team
2018-11-25  13:52:23 <agaida> anyways, now it is - was only a bit upset
2018-11-25  13:53:13 <mapreri> for whatever reason pochu is not triggering the rebuilds, that is indeed causing grief in multiple people…
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Offline piper

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Yes, I seen that with olasd ;)

Code: [Select]
apt-mark hold debian sid
debian sid  |  apt into it

siduction d-u warnings

Dont Break Debian




we are the priests  ...  of the temples of syrinx  ...

Offline tranquil

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I come from sidux -> aptosid and now siduction. I always use apt-listbugs & hold and I had zero issues.I know this forum is against listbugs & hold but for me works quite well.



You can remove iptables from hold.

Quote from: tranquil
Because I don't like dealing with a large amount of packages to be upgraded
Interesting   :o  and your actually saying this with a straight face using sid  ;)

What I meant was I don't like dealing with a large amount of packages to be upgraded when you wait during times like transitions.

This is when you wait, although you can still cherry pick (this is the result after cherry picking):
Code: [Select]
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  gnome-mime-data libcln6 libgnomevfs2-common
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libreoffice libreoffice-librelogo libreoffice-script-provider-python python3-uno
The following packages have been kept back:
  libpython3-stdlib python3 python3-minimal
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core
  libreoffice-base-drivers libreoffice-calc libreoffice-common libreoffice-core
  libreoffice-draw libreoffice-help-common libreoffice-help-en-us
  libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math
  libreoffice-nlpsolver libreoffice-ogltrans libreoffice-report-builder
  libreoffice-report-builder-bin libreoffice-script-provider-bsh
  libreoffice-script-provider-js libreoffice-sdbc-firebird libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb
  libreoffice-sdbc-postgresql libreoffice-style-colibre libreoffice-style-tango
  libreoffice-wiki-publisher libreoffice-writer python3-reportbug reportbug
  uno-libs3 ure
30 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 4 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 108 MB of archives.
After this operation, 1,533 kB disk space will be freed.
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Offline clubex

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I too have been here since the sidux days (and before that with Kanotix). If i need something desperately then I install/upgrade it. A case in point is the loss of lightning after the last thunderbird upgrade. I desperately needed it so I reinstalled the new lightning as soon as it was available. I don't see anything wroong with that.

I also use listbugs (and changelogs if I'm particularly interested) because I like to see what I'm up against.

These days I tend to rely on apt -s (or aptitude) telling me something of what is going to happen. I suppose holding packages and simulating a full-upgrade might help to point out any problems and avoid a broken machine; but I've never tried it.

I see "hold" as useful when you desperately need a particular package to save an , important  task. After all siduction is about making sid usable by tempering risk with  cautious wisdom and experience.

:edited for a typo

Offline piper

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@tranquil

Please please stop using the term cherry picking.

I really don't think you know what the word means in a linux/android/unix/windows/choose your operating system environment.

I am tired of cleaning my monitor of spit coffee every time I see you/other people use it like they know :P

cherry-picking-explained

man git-cherry-pick

And you argue hold is a great idea





clubex

Yes, hold can be useful at times, depends what is going on and what is being held.
python3 is big, but it's your machine, do what you want, but others  spew stuff that a newer user will follow and fuck his/her machine up and we don't want that

We are here for support, not to argue about something so simple in life & linux

ミ★ღ patience ღ★彡

« Last Edit: 2018/11/26, 13:05:57 by piper »
debian sid  |  apt into it

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Dont Break Debian




we are the priests  ...  of the temples of syrinx  ...

Offline melmarker

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hmm, @piper refers to git - so we should explain git too:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Git
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. (Benjamin Franklin, November 11, 1755)
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. (Hanlons razor)